Buried Alive: On Montsalvat’s Autopsy of the AltRight


Eugene Montsalvat has issued an attack on the “alternative right” masquerading as an autopsy over at the new RightOn site. Declaring the movement dead at this historical moment is preposterous. Speaking as an old believer who actually knows what being in a hopeless and sinking movement feels like, I can say with complete confidence that we’re not in need of an autopsy any time soon.

When the broad movement now called “the alternative Right” seemed to arise around 2010, the hopes were quite high. The then-editor of The Occidental Quarterly stated that he hoped it would introduce young conservatives to things such as the European New Right, Third Positionism, the Conservative Revolution, Traditionalism, and Rightist anti-capitalism.

The first deception is the notion that the whole thing was actually engineered by the Old Right at all. It wasn’t, and both the paleoconservative White Nationalist and European New Right movements have consistently fought the whole thing tooth and nail. They continue to do so in a roundabout and besieged manner. It wasn’t supposed to happen like this at all. The WN leadership’s plan was to try to “influence elites” and inject themselves into Tea Party and pro-capitalist libertarian ideological projects, always being careful to avoid the triggers, tap dance around the JQ, and confine racial issues to scientific journals and dry crime statistics.

The kids in the imageboards and IRC channels had their own plans. We all–self-inclusive–were surprised to discover that the outreach model was entirely upside-down. Alienated young men became fixated on Holocaust Revisionism, on Jewish subversion, on lampooning and lambasting minority and immigrant communities, on reviving A Wyatt Mann comics, on fighting capitalism, and–most importantly–on being unapologetically radical.

As much as both we would like to imagine that what’s happening was planned by the old guard, and as much as the SPLC and others would like to validate our vanity on this matter, it’s not true.

Instead of becoming a bridgehead for the thought of Conservative Revolutionary or New Right figures such as Oswald Spengler, Alain de Benoist, or Alexander Dugin to enter American political discourse, it has become a rallying point for those who wish to defend capitalism from low-IQ populations, all its theories being couched in the most immature terminology dredged from the recesses of the Internet.

Everything else in the tediously repetitive autopsy is a repetition of this excerpt. Like just about every biological relativist, he sets up a false dichotomy where he insists that our side reduces everything to race and biology. This couldn’t be more false for the #altright clique. Their two greatest war cries are “cuckold” and “degenerate,” terms which firmly target in-group misbehavior rather than biological inferiority. Their greatest targets are White “cuckservatives” and Jewish oligarchs, …not Mexican peasants and homeless Blacks.

And where’s this supposed defense of capitalism? Their mainstream champion Trump is calling for deep investments in national infrastructure, running on a platform of stiff tariffs and higher wages for industrial workers, fully socialized healthcare, and even (qualified) expansion of investment in specifically women’s healthcare issues. This is emphatically not some libertarian-style project, and I challenge Eugene to point to these capitalism-friendly people in the places these people are active.

In the best case scenario, it is one step in the extended process of breaking a person out of the paradigm of liberal egalitarianism towards a philosophical conception of human difference. In this sense, a biological understanding of human inequality should be seen as a transitory phase. Yes, humans are indeed biologically different, yet this biological conception of difference is only a shallow understanding of essential human differences. For a more in-depth understanding of human inequality, we must move beyond pure biological materialism, which replicates an Enlightenment rationalist understanding of the world, and enter into the Traditionalist doctrine of race, as understood by Julius Evola.

Blah blah blah… Typical “Rainbow Trad.”

Race matters. Biology matters. Julius Evola didn’t actually deny this if one reads his work in full. He did critique some of the more heated cattle-breeding excesses of his age’s fascism, as do I. But the anti-White conservative “Traditionalist” always plays this same rhetorical shell game. The biological realities of race, gender, and diversity within and between race and gender aren’t some sort of stage in awakening one eventually surpasses after having imbibed enough verbose esoterica. They are reality. They are fact. They are incontrovertible components of any political approach which is rooted in actuality rather than mere theory.

Some way, somehow, people like Eugene will find a way to insist that being pro-White in any manner or form makes one an unenlightened, spiritually deficient, and metapolitically vulgar rube. Rainbow Trads, like Neocons, are happy to exploit racial friction as a gateway to drinking their kool-aid. But they have no intention of actually confirming or supporting our struggle to exist. Our struggle to preserve our flesh is a distraction from their abstractions.

But this is less a matter of kool-aid than it is milkshakes. Eugene’s insisting that racialists are drinking his Traditionalist milkshake. If anything, it’s the other way around. The young men propelling the altright are first awakened and motivated by the toxic racial politics that Western Millennials are exposed to.

They’re accurately identifying many Traditionalist and Counter-Revolutionary ideals as solutions to those problems. And they’re correct about the transformative power of Radical Traditionalist ideals. You’ve just got to ignore the Rainbow Trads who wish to terminate the process by insisting (falsely) that Tradition is somehow multicultural and implicitly anti-White.

With “race of the soul,” we can talk about the various spiritual characteristics that define a certain people. Thus, if one abides by a Jewish morality, one could be a member of the “Jewish race of the soul” while being entirely Gentile in a biological sense.

He’s an absolute biological relativist who would gladly abide the complete genocide of our race while rambling about how the “white race of the soul” lives on in Asians playing Beethoven or whatever.

As for “race of spirit,” it defines how different people within a society relate to the divine.

He can carry on all he wants with his shell game, but his bottom line remains consistent. He will obstruct a healthy racial awakening at each step of the way, regardless of how much one demonstrates that one is not monomaniacally obsessed with reducing everything to biology. As a representative sampling, our past dozen articles have offered a representative smattering of anti-capitalist, traditionalist, anti-semitic, strategic, and political commentary. Some of it intersects with race, and much of it doesn’t.

According to our opponents, we’re singularly “obsessed” with race, but the record suggests that they’re singularly obsessed with our position on race. If you take a pro-White position and refuse to back down, the anti-Whites will become obsessed with you.

Furthermore, it’s distinctly uninspiring, since no man will charge a machine gun nest to defend an IQ study. Men die for higher, transcendent visions of being.

More machine gun nests have been charged on behalf of one’s folk than on behalf of Spenglerian historiography.

The rest is a critique of elements of the altright who are obviously old guard operators. They are unrepresentative of the actual milieu. Many White Nationalists who were around long before the imageboard kiddies came along are trying to make things pro-capitalist, anti-Russia, feminist, and anti-Islamic. The kids aren’t falling for it. They’re not falling for either the tone deaf paleocon buffoonery of the old school racialist movement actors or the vapid and vacuous Rainbow Trad nonsense which has dominated Europe’s New Right intellectual circles since long before the altright became a thing.

The altright neither belongs to America’s paleocon White Nationalist clique nor to Europe’s New Right ideologues. It’s a fluid and organic social phenomenon which is still growing, still learning, still developing, and still in the process of defining itself.

And to top it all off, all these alternative Right positions are articulated in the most immature and crude ways imaginable. The mass influx of people from Internet message boards, such as 4chan’s /pol/, into the alternative Right milieu has given a sophomoric coloring to its discourse. Instead of well-developed arguments, memes and cheap catchphrases abound, often quite tasteless.

This betrays the first mistake Eugene made. We all like to imagine that things belong to us. Of course, he assumes that the altright belongs to the European New Right. It does not. Paleocon White Nationalists make the same mistake. /pol/ didn’t invade something which already existed. /pol/ is the alternative right. He’s obviously invested very little time in investigating the origins of these things, as he would discover that the imageboards simultaneously host some of the most informed and intelligent discourse available…in conjunction with their shock comedy.

This of course appeals to rebellious kids, and extends their base of support among them, as reading serious books and developing fully articulated ideas appeals to an increasingly slim portion of the population.

It completely escapes him that the rebellious kids indulging in the shocking jokes are indeed reading serious books and are indeed capable of delivering more fully articulated presentations of their ideals. Even if the appropriate term for the behavior is “immaturity,” immaturity is a welcome relief from the sterility and senility which has suffocated the Right for far too long.

However, no serious intellectual can entertain an ideology based on Internet subcultural in-jokes, never mind the vast majority of the general population.

Perhaps he delivered his draft before Trump crushed it in the South Carolina primary? And, of course, the ideology isn’t based on the subcultural in-jokes. That’s another cheap shot coming from the man who purports to be the standard bearer of serious and fancy adult discourse.

Finally, we must start building serious movements and developing think-tanks that produce serious ideas rather than Internet memes.

What he doesn’t get is that the kids producing the Internet memes are more serious than the men in the Right wing think tanks. Having spent a fair share of time behind the curtains of both, I can confirm this to be the case. At the think tank conferences, there are silly old men preening and carrying on about capitalism-friendly entryist faggotry (when they can be bothered to speak more about ideas than about their investment portfolios and banquet meals).

Meanwhile, hyper-fixated teens and young adults are scrolling through trending tags on social media at this very moment, poised like vipers to develop and deploy a cutting barb against the elite narrative in the service of their very seriously held and thoughtfully considered identitarian and traditionalist vision. The person who injected “White Genocide” into national discourse a few weeks ago with a comedic meme is a fifteen year old. A fifteen year old!

He’s not some “puerile teenage capitalist.” He’s a national socialist with no patience whatsoever for capitalist or colonialist nonsense. The New Right wasn’t rejected on account of the altright’s lack of intelligence, lack of maturity, or lack of having read thick books. These kids are some serious readers. The European New Right is only receiving a partial hug precisely because of the sort of thing we see here; capitulation on identity, cowardly disengagement from the culture war, and “low energy” unwillingness to adopt a radial posture in opposition to our enemies.

evola-said


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  • Dean Dart

    I am very disappointed in Montsalvat.

    People such as himself are what I call “hyper intellectuals”. The way in which they put their ideas across are overtly intellectual. Our movement is organic and grassroots in nature. Thereby the line of “no intellectual can entertain an ideology based on Internet subculture in-jokes”, but why then would it come across that way? Our movement is made up of working-class whites, teenagers and young people – they are after all the most affecte. However scorning organisations for having and representing said people and not being “intellectual enough”, is itself a betrayal.

    Intellectuals, especially on the right, be it alt-right or new right; must understand that their targets are normal people who have been hypnotized into believing in the current state of affairs as being normal. The message must be a simple red pill. If internet memes are able to do that better than Montsalvats “think tanks”and laborious essays, then the weapon of choice is obvious.

    The fact that Eugene seems to overlook this, seems to point to a “house on the hill” mentality, removed from what truly happens on the ground.

    I am however interested to hear whether or not Eugene spoke independently using Right On as a platform, or is this the view of Right On itself.

    • 5n4k33y35

      It appears that Montsalvat is not even in the ball park of Fascism. I doubt his opinion is even worthy of consideration or a rebuttal. He does not appear to agree with apartheid and racial nationalism.

    • barzun

      “People such as himself are what I call “hyper intellectuals”.

      This not true. If you formally study philosophy, you are taught not write and reason like these guys. It’s really a kind of signaling game where Dunning-Kruger effect comes into play. A man who can write 500 cogent, well thought words, is better than a self taught screeder.

  • J.j. Cintia

    This idiot better write his own obituary. Its all about Race. Always has been. Everything else is an ancillary issue. That’s why the enemy is obsessed with Race. Race is all that really matters.

    • In any kind of multicultural society, politics is identity. We think of it as purely racial and most times people in the West say “multicultural” they really MEAN “multiracial,” but there are parts of the world where culture conflicts.

      It’s not so much that identity is the only thing that matters, but when there’s diversity of identity, the identity issues swamp any others. Only once the identity of a State is fairly homogeneous do the ancillary issues become dominant.

  • Shotgun

    I think socialism, even national socialism, is a ridiculous economic position (whatever its moral or social merits), and that without some form of free market, white folks are doomed to poverty, irrelevance, and death.

    …but in all fairness, I’m a lonely bastard in this respect. Where are all the hoards of guys who agree with me on this? I’ve been nosing around the edges of the Alt. Right for awhile and might only bring two names to mind. Three? At most?

    • Socialism is the perfect economic position when dealing inside one’s own family.

      Nationalism restricts the State to those of one’s family, extended perhaps, but nonetheless family and closely related. My neighbors are all cousins in a Nationalist State, not 1st or 2nd cousins necessarily, but close enough to me so that their reproductive and life successes are Darwinistly speaking, my own.

      Hence, National Socialism consisting of 1) a social safety net for the bottom, 2) restrictions so that the rich don’t cross their own family for selfish means, 3) protectionism internationally, and 4) a market which is free and meritocratic provided it doesn’t conflict with 1-3 above.

    • Shotgun

      yeah, if you hate your family and want to starve them to death.

    • EricStriker

      I think I would much rather be a 1930’s German factory worker vacationing the Italian Riviera at a government subsidized price, over their starving American equivalents, desperately boiling leaves just to get any kind of nutrition in their bellies in a year of record harvests!

      There’s room for rugged individualists like yourself Shotgun, as long as you pay to use everything independently. And make sure you never get sick. Because if you ever need medical attention as one of the people given special snowflake individual exemptions, and don’t have the money to pay for it, we’re going to let you die in the streets.

      Everyone’s a libertarian until they’re the ones in need. 15 years ago every baby boomer asshole would complain about “unions” and “entitlements” incessantly. Now these same people are either being forced to retire early or scraping by on government services because there are no jobs out there for adults.

    • Shotgun

      …and most government school kids are socialists until they get actual jobs.

    • Eric do you have a blog? Interesting viewpoints.

    • EricStriker

      Not at the moment, but I’ll (hopefully) be writing a lot for the upcoming Traditional Workers Party publication, and I’m also deep into an investigatory book on Jews I’ll be releasing in PDF/E-book format.

    • Great, I’ll look for it.

    • My understanding of socialism is that it’s essentially market-friendly capitalism, adapted as necessary to ensure that the needs of the tribe are accounted for.

      When you object to socialism, it seems more like you’re objecting to command economy, social credit, and other economic theories which are actively market-hostile.

      Think of the market like a cow.

      Marxism is the notion that one should slaughter it.

      Socialism is the notion that one should milk it.

      Capitalism is the notion that one should worship it.

    • EricStriker

      There’s nothing wrong with social credit and the command economy. They have worked and will continue to work.

      Very few non-misanthropic people support capitalism because it is illogical, only a shallow person fixated on externals could argue it is a success. Like the type of person who thinks poor people in America are better off than ever because they’re all fat, when in truth, they’re still malnourished, they just get fat from eating shitty carbs like Mac n Cheese and grade F ground beef 3 times a day.

    • Shotgun

      Well, I’m certainly shallow and fixated on success.

      …by the way, didn’t you admit that you don’t read Capitalist material? Why should we take your word seriously on the topic?

      But hey, don’t answer that.

      I intended my post to be a further denunciation of Montsalvat’s zany critique and didn’t mean to ruffle socialist feathers. We’ll have to save your education on the finer points of the free market for another time, like, say, when you come to my house to confiscate my goods and redistribute them to a gaggle of white trash, maybe?

      I hope you come prepared. lol

    • EricStriker

      How do you measure success? By how many millionaires are in your country?

      Conservatives like you love to imagine that everyone out there struggling financially is a woman pregnant out of wedlock eating shrimp and drinking champagne with their $500 dollars a month in Welfare benefits.

      In reality, most of the people who need assistance are employed full-time, fighting to support their kids on their third world wages. Elderly people unable to enjoy their golden years because their pension is a joke. Country folk whose life has been turned upside down once the only source of employment (a mine, a paper mill, a factory, whatever) goes out of business or is outsourced.

      If you were seriously interested in reducing government dependency, you would support raising the minimum wage to reflect the cost of living, and market intervention (like replacing the costly obamacare insurance crony racket with a public option, or subsidizing college education instead of burying students in trillions in debt the government will likely never get paid for), to save the public some money.

      But no. You think you’re the shit just because you aren’t one of those 100,000,000 or so Americans pushed out of the work force…yet. They’re all just white trash that deserve what they get, right?

      Once capitalism creates a market where there are as many jobs as there are people, then we can talk personal responsibility. But not once in history has capital resolved this inherent contradiction, of integrating the reserve labor force into the economy. Even in the best of times, capitalist societies leave millions out of work.

    • Shotgun

      Please; get in front of a microphone and speak these ideas as often as you can. lol

    • EricStriker

      Do you consider your kinsmen to be your brothers and sisters, or to be “white trash”? If you don’t , how are you a nationalist? Do you see how nationalism and socialism naturally come together, because those capitalist theorist jews (like Ayn Rand, who curiously supported nationalism and socialism for her own in Israel) you tell me I need to read sure agree.

    • Shotgun

      I’ve learned not to object to “isms”; I prefer to object to specific outlines or plans whenever or if-ever I see them. This is especially helpful when dealing with notoriously ambiguous and emotionally-laden “ism” terms.

  • Richard Bird

    Not being as intelligent and educated as the author, I was forced to give up reading this article at about the halfway mark. I guess people of average IQ have no place in the WN movement. What a pity, but no biggie. Obviously we have nothing to offer the movement other than our worthless lives, something we will be called upon to sacrifice when the SHTF no doubt. For that we should be eternally grateful I guess.

    • Ezra Pound

      BINGO. Here’s how I responded to a commenter who agreed with Montsalvat’s sentiment: ‘ “a certain lack of intellectualism exists within the [Alt] Right” No, it doesn’t. It is just that intellectualism is not the entirety of what we do. Not everyone is an intellectual so to take an entirely intellectual tack is to limit one’s appeal. Memes, trolling and irreverent humor are all sledgehammers for breaking down the ghetto walls of humorless right-wing politics and reaching people who are not susceptible to intellectual appeals. I really don’t see what is so hard to get about that. The Left was able to achieve the power it has because it had operatives working at all levels of politics and culture from the intellectual through the respectable middle-brow down to the level of vulgar plebeian culture jamming. And while the culture jamming alienated the intellectuals, it won over the street activists. Likewise, limp-wristed, bloodless intellectualism alienates many potential allies of the new, dissident right: mainly the blue-collar guys who have a good instinctual aversion to the kind of condescension that almost necessarily goes along with intellectual pitches made to a less-than-intellectual audience. The plebes don’t read Evola and they get rightfully indignant when you tell them they’ve got to. That’s not going to change so we need a menu of options that suit the tastes and abilities of all our people, not just the ones who arrogate to themselves the mantle superior Intellect.’

  • Ezra Pound

    If this is the best attack on the Alt Right that….whomever Mr. Montsalvat represents….can muster, then I feel pretty good about its future. The Alt Right tends to attract people who are willing to follow the truth wherever it leads – hence the complaints of the article: the Alt Right de-emphasizes ideology, unapologetically tips sacred cows and exudes a socially and politically impious “F— YOU” quality – so an article like this, already handicapped by its transparent and furtively wishful title, actually buoys the Alt Right. Mr. Montsalvat is either hasty or cynical (or both), but either way honest people who have had even a little exposure to the Alt Right will see that. People who have had no such exposure may be taken in by this weak tabloid pablum, but the rest of us are just bewildered by it, embarrassed for RighOn and Arktos, and further reinforced in the conviction that we occupy the moral high ground, because if we didn’t, surely you could up with something better than this, Eugene.

    • This all has the feel of a custody dispute.

      The New Right and White Nationalist factions existed well before this whole altright thing was a thing, and they both feel that they’re the father.

      If anybody’s the parent of the altright, it’s the SJW leftists. Their fanatically anti-white and anti-male polemics were bound to provoke some sort of response from the increasingly alienated and humiliated youthful white males.

      The altright isn’t obligated to go along with the pro-capitalist paramasonic faggotry of the old WN guard or the gnostic buffoonery of the New Right. It’ll borrow the good from both, and discard the useless.

    • Ezra Pound

      Absolutely. And if all it is is a matter of a few hoary factional leaders grumbling about “muh credit” then I’m overjoyed. I think it has also to do with people being attached to ideologies (as we all are and must be) whose epistemic commitments they cannot suspend, even temporarily, to reflect on the practical service or disservice that rigid adherence to those ideologies, or aspects of them, does to their actual interests. Having at one time been a purist of various stripes, I see syncretism vis-a-vis metapolitics as much more appealing right now, and I think you’re saying pretty much the same think in your last paragraph. So that means encouraging every purist to articulate their particular brand of ideology to the fullest and do their best to make converts of the rest of us. But – and here is the key – as these various ideologies are inevitably going to clash, let’s please not go out of our way to make those clashes out as absolute ruptures which necessitate endless factional bifurcations, denunciations and purges. TradYouth has been exemplary in this. You guys forge something totally unique and catch a lot of flack for it, but I never remember you going out of your way to provoke or denounce other groups within the dissident right. When there are disagreements over ideology or methodology that threaten to erupt into factional splits, there should be polite agreement to work independently, but never at odds. And if one group sees another as being existentially at odds with itself, or “the movement” should they feel inclined to speak in “it’s” name, it is best to just put that concern off to the side because there is no one faction strong enough to take control, impose its ideology or bring down the dissident right, so there ought to be no real fear in letting competing ideologies…compete – with a few reservations that should be obvious (but maybe that’s just my ideology speaking?) And then, as you say, as things firm up, we will take the best of what is offered and forge it into something new yet ‘radical’ in the etymological sense.

    • What is the difference between the ‘alt-right’ and white nationalism? I thought they were basically synonymous but now people keep making a distinction between the two and I’m confused.

    • Jack Spratt

      “If anybody’s the parent of the altright, it’s the SJW leftists.”

      ITZ COMING!

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    Solid reply, Matt. No autopsy needed on a movement that is just taking off and has awesome prospects.

    And anyway, we need fewer intellectuals and more soldier-activists.

  • Ted Jones

    Excellent.

  • EricStriker

    Eugene Montsalvat’s worldview is convoluted and his writing is turgid. He prefers to deal with abstractions over real world facts and experiences, because he’s motivated by his ego more than he is about the well-being of his people and civilization. As a fellow ex-Marxist, I point Eugene out to the anecdote Stalin makes about 1 minute of action being worth more than 10,000 books of theory. Striking at the culture distorting Jews on Twitter before 100’s of thousands of eyes with the Boycott Star Wars hashtag is more important in the national revolution than anything “national conservatives” have ever written.

    The 7th grade level speeches of Trump inspire more people and cultivate more radical axioms than the most articulate 30,000 word piece some “New Right” French coffee shop intellectual ever will.

    He wants to oppose capitalism without being a Leftist (which is good), but also doesn’t want to be a “Nazi” because that’s politically incorrect.

    That means he’s incredibly constricted ideologically. He’s trying to reinvent the wheel using existing materials like Francis Parker Yockey did, but has too many prejudices and inhibitions to be like this great thinker. Eugene loves to fluff the British agents that tried to assassinate Hitler as permanent revolutionists, subverting their nation at the most pressing time to retain the honor of the “Von” in their names. Yet, once the war was over, these same Vons did nothing to confront the BRD, because they were petulant children who felt intimidated by a competing or co-existing worldview (EG, the institutions of the NS Waffen-SS and Prussian Wehrmacht side by side), not revolutionaries.

    Anyway, he’s correct that a lot of the Alt-right is kind of retarded. It’s a work in progress though, the way to raise the standard from Pepe the Frog memes is not through bloviating essays, but engaging with real world concerns of every day folks in a manner that is sophisticated in the thinking behind it, without being alienating in how the message is disseminated.

    All radical movements are going to be chock full of weirdos and misfits, if you want to be around the beautiful people this is the wrong movement for you.

    • 5n4k33y35

      I thought of the “Alt Right” as a “work in progress” until I got censored for being too uncompromising with the jews.

      Now I suspect the “Alt Right” is a transient branding campaign that will go the way of “Neo-Reactionary” or NRx.

      The reason I would be inclined toward pessimism for the “Alt Right” is simply because those who are its defining intellectuals are looking for a compromise with Israel and they won’t ever agree that #HitlerWasRight and #HitlerDidNothingWrong (morally).

      I would point out that the “Alt Right” does not like David Duke at all. I would also say, David Duke is our most uncompromising senior leader and he should be relied upon, as such.

      People said we need a unifying personality. Well, we have one already.

    • EricStriker

      The massive range within the “Alt-Right” is the dilemma. Is Breitbart part of the alternative right? Many, even most, would say yes, but I would give a resounding NO! .

      Is the manosphere or Roosh V part of the alt-right? I would give a fervent YES! (even if I don’t agree with everything they say or stand for) , but a lot of people who identify as alt-right got caught up in the media storm and are now saying no.

      When a strident and competent political vehicle (a party) arrives, everyone will fall in line behind it. Let’s just hope the people who take control are inclusive and loyal to the final victory, rather than opportunists trying to stamp out all criticism of Jews with their tenable, but ultimately bullshit, assertions.

      I won’t say I’m with or against the Alt-Right, because I’m both.

    • 5n4k33y35

      Before the manosphere, it was known to be MRAs against PUAs. MRAs were married and divorced men, fleeced in divorce court and struggling with bitter custody disputes. MRAs were pissed! And the MRAs were also fighting the rape-hoaxers.

      Meanwhile, PUAs like Roissy and Roosh were prattling all day about begging for poontang, because PUA / Game is mostly bachelors. The PUA scene was purely Feminist, as their success or failure was entirely according to the whims of fornicating women.

      Eventually someone, probably a Feminist, coined the term “manosphere” and lumped every different kind of man together, and this only confuses the distinction between MRA (usually defending patriarchal values), versus PUA (usually reinforcing Feminism by begging for poontang).

      Here is what the PUA / Game comment threads were like back then, how they treated MRAs – you guys are old whiners! You are just a beta who can’t get p*ssy!

      MRAs were talking about serious matters, custody of their kids and being falsely accused of rape. Now the PUA / Game writers are gradually drifting into MRA territory. But they don’t want to admit how embarrassing their PUA / Game origins really are.

    • EricStriker

      I have to say, I like Roissy quite a bit, he’s an excellent writer and ought to be deferred to when it comes to man-woman relations. I think Pick Up Artist tricks are snake oil outside of the basics (women want to be dominated) , but sometimes banalities like young men trying to find a Gameshark cartridge for getting laid can turn into something bigger and political.

    • 5n4k33y35

      I would never defer to PUA / Game writers with regards to how to relate to women. Women are not generic.

      Each man makes his own personal relationship with each woman, and quite a lot of the PUA / Game advice is non-transferable simply because it is impersonal.

      Women are reading that stuff too, and women are a moving target, not to be taken by surprise by pompous behavior and ‘negging’.

      I don’t say Roissy and Roosh are forever trapped in their predicament as clowns, but their PUA / Game writing from before they drifted towards MRA territory is going to embarrass them quite a lot.

    • heraclitus

      my entrance to the alt-right was through MRA stuff and to be honest, I don’t think there is any lasting appeal to that stuff.It’s a gateway to more profound writers.

    • EricStriker

      Yep, and now this gateway is being closed shut by drama-loving women who, judging from what I’ve been seeing elsewhere, are indeed obnoxious feminists.

    • Laguna Beach Fogey

      No. You’ve got the Game/PUA part entirely wrong.

    • heraclitus

      Kyle Hunt had criticized the alt-right for embracing the PUA stuff.

    • If there are people saying that Breitbart — Kikebart as some on /pol justifiably deride it — is part of the alt right, you know something has gone wrong somewhere. I’d be careful about embracing Roosh. He doesn’t belong on the alt right either, or at least not on any strain of it legitimately concerned with a rebirth of European peoples.

      Roosh personally disavowed the alt right the other day for supposedly seeking to control men’s sexual choices. His disavowal combined manosphere boilerplate about the feminist menace with a few slams against WNsm that rely on well-worn Jewish tropes.

      I’m not sure what’s happening across these discourse communities lately, but with my possibly excessively suspicious mind I’ve got no trouble conjecturing that the Jew is and has been on the move more than usual lately. It seems like there is an attack a week minimum against the alt right on /pol these days; some group calling itself the “rope culture” has recently come along advertising on /pol. They’ve attacked the alt right a few times; this man at RightOn attacked the alt right; and I’ve seen a few attacks on the alt right on You Tube. Except for Roosh’s, most of these attacks contain kernels of truth and perfectly legitimate criticisms, but, nevertheless, something seems off about all these attacks coming at a time when white ideas have never ridden so high in the mainstream, mainly driven by the alt right.

      Whites are divided enough as it is for legitimate reasons, and Jews are always exploiting those divisions. Men versus women is a big one. Another reason to be very cautious about cozying up to the Roosh’s of the world.

    • heraclitus

      Trying to conflate traditional masculinity with the degenerate PUA subculture is the original sin of Roosh V, although ROK has many good articles.

      At least ROK doesn’t have any unlikable ikey neocons like ben shapiro writing for it.

    • EricStriker

      “If there are people saying that Breitbart — Kikebart as some on /pol
      justifiably deride it — is part of the alt right, you know something
      has gone wrong somewhere.”

      What Breitbart specializes in is in utilizing its superior resources and funds to siphon discontent away from us, and towards gay Jews/ controlled opposition like Milo Yiannopolous, clearing the ideological brush for his own. Milo and Ben Shapiro play the good cop/bad cop game with certain dispositions that refuse to engage with any content unless it comes from a [Jew] “reputable and prestigious source”, like Breitbart. Like it or not, 90% of the Alt-Right would feint if Breitbart or even Rush Limbaugh mentioned them just for 5 minutes. “The Overton Window is moving guys, if you keep omitting Jews in your critiques we can move it even further!”

      This problem is entities within the Alt-Right (which is by no means monolithic) that push the myth that we’re being killed and replaced because of our altruism, or because we don’t have Ph.D’s, or because we need to be more like Care Bears, or because of Islam. Some elements of the Alt-right completely underestimate the sheer extent of moneyed power, and think that this culture/race war is a GOP primary.

      ” I’d be careful about embracing Roosh. He doesn’t belong on the alt right either, or at least not on any strain of it legitimately concerned
      with a rebirth of European peoples.

      Roosh personally disavowed the alt right the other day for
      supposedly seeking to control men’s sexual choices. His disavowal
      combined manosphere boilerplate about the feminist menace with a few
      slams against WNsm that rely on well-worn Jewish tropes.”

      Well, Roosh got put on an ADL black list and was subjected to a Jewish media blitz for exposing his mostly white, urban, skilled, and intelligent young male audience to radical, pro-white ideas. He put his livelihood and even life at stake to do it, only for certain twitter harpies and their man-carpets to call him a “kebab” or falsely accuse him of being a rapist while he weathered a massive Zionist led war against him and male comraderie (the only thing the tribal meetup was slated to do).

      Roosh is an off-white (according to Hitler and the Nuremberg laws, fully white) who goes to Eastern Europe and sleeps with women around there, while exposing millions to ideas that benefit our revolution. I don’t blame him for the fact that some women in these countries will sleep with anyone who has an American passport–how about we hold the women accountable for once?

      Roosh will continue fucking European women, probably more of them and hotter ones than ever before since he is all over the place as a notorious bad boy now. The only thing that has changed is that his audience will no longer be exposed to our ideas. I don’t see just what we gain from this dynamic, other than emotional catharsis.

      It’s possible to be pragmatic without sacrificing core ideas. The manosphere is flawed and PUA is stupid shit (I believe both Roissy and Roosh have admitted as much), but let’s not pretend it exists in a vacuum. It’s a direct reaction to very real problems where the people involved make clear they long for traditional gender relations (submissive wife, dominant husband, kids–home and hearth), especially in the urban enclaves (NYC, Paris, Berlin) these young white men exist in.

      Their attitude is “well, the sink is shipping, might as well enjoy it”. It’s quite easy for some of you to tell them “GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER AND FIND A WIFE” when you’re not in their shoes or a man in his mid 20’s. If you were, you’d realize why they don’t even consider that option.

    • Jack Spratt

      “Roosh will continue fucking European women”

      I thought you said on Twitter you think Roosh doesn’t have nearly as much sex as he says?

      The Nuremberg Laws didn’t have anything to do with Iranians. The idea that Roosh would’ve been considered white in National Socialist Germany is a misunderstanding of how racial policy worked in National Socialist Germany.

    • EricStriker

      No. All indo-European people, and a few non-European people (Iranians, Armenians included) were classified as Aryans under the Nuremberg Laws according to state Anthropologists.

      Make of that what you may. I agree with you that HItler would never want to transplant millions of Persians into Germany, but he wouldn’t lose sleep over a few living there either.

      There are countless people within the Aut-Right that have non-whites spouses, have had sex with non-whites, or even are Jews weaseling in themselves (something I don’t like). And nobody creates problems for them. You know why Roosh is being targeted? Because a couple of women who are mentally unstable have recently latched on to our dissident movement, and simply don’t like Roosh, and legions of internet people who think they’re going to get lucky with these women are vying to be their knights in shining armor.

      Either everyone is held to the same standards, or nobody is. Return of Kings was a great resource for young white men to befriend like-minded people, and network in service of our racial struggle. That’s all I care about. I find Ann Coulter’s romantic life to be very offensive, and I find her history as being a system shill who is still lying for Jews in her immigration book, to be far more worthy of attention. And yet, if you try to bring that up, the paleo-cucks calling themselves alt-right shout you down.

    • Jack Spratt

      “All indo-European people, and a few non-European people (Iranians, Armenians included) were classified as Aryans under the Nuremberg Laws according to state Anthropologists.”

      Yes but Hitler wasn’t an “Aryan Nationalist”. He was a German Nationalist, and while some closely related peoples were considered assimilable into the German nation, it doesn’t follow that all peoples considered Aryan would’ve been.

      “I agree with you that HItler would never want to transplant millions of Persians into Germany, but he wouldn’t lose sleep over a few living there either.”

      I’m not aware of any Iranians who were given German citizenship under Hitler. If they were it would’ve been because a few individual Iranians did something special to help the Reich. Roosh on the other hand seems to think he has some kind of right to go wherever he wants without regard to other peoples’ nationalism. It’s a very Leftist and Jewy position.

      “You know why Roosh is being targeted? Because a couple of women who are mentally unstable have recently latched on to our dissident movement, and simply don’t like Roosh, and legions of internet people who think they’re going to get lucky with these women are vying to be their knights in shining armor.”

      I tried to give Roosh the benefit of the doubt and asked him reasonable questions about the passages from Bang Poland that turned off most of his Alt Right defenders. Roosh didn’t respond, or at least if he did it was in a subtweet. Clearly Roosh by that point didn’t really want to keep having anything to do with the Alt Right, creating a situation where it was better to attack him in the hopes he would bitch out and whine about how “racist” we all are, making himself look weak and undermining his ability to stay relevant as young White men radicalize more and more with every passing year.

      “I find Ann Coulter’s romantic life to be very offensive, and I find her history as being a system shill who is still lying for Jews in her immigration book, to be far more worthy of attention. And yet, if you try to bring that up, the paleo-cucks calling themselves alt-right shout you down.”

      You can say whatever you want about Coulter and I don’t mind. I refrain from attacking Coulter myself mostly because lately she’s been avoiding opportunities to triangulate against “racists”. In contrast Roosh mocked us on Twitter for not wanting White women to keep being degenerate.

    • Jack Spratt

      “The people who read sites like RoK are our natural allies and it is young, angry, hypergamy-victimized men that are the engine of every movement for social change in human history. Quickly, this is becoming a lost opportunity that people had to work over time to ruin, and our revolution is weaker because of it.”

      It’s good that we tricked an enemy into spreading our anti-Jewish ideas on his website. Still I think Roosh would’ve turned on us whether any of us ever criticized him or not. Fundamentally it didn’t make sense for him to support us given his belief that there shouldn’t be any constraints on male sexual behavior. The only reason he supported us for a while is because he didn’t think we would get anywhere.

    • EricStriker

      Roosh has come out , consistently, against Arab and African immigration to Europe. There are actually a surprising number of Iranians in the West who at the very least are sympathetic towards Western civilization for latent racial reasons (many are mixed race but have some glimpse of the Aryan soul).

      I repeat: you gain nothing in 2016 America by criticizing jews, opposing immigration, and attacking feminism…except having the Jewish press lie and defame you, and Anarchist paramilitary groups vow to murder your family. For all his faults, if this was all about money for Roosh, he would do what the other PUAs do: Stay off the ADL hitlist and stick to selling snake oil.

      I don’t consider every last person who isn’t of European descent on the planet to be my enemy, especially if they’re helping our cause out. I ask once again, if Roosh banging some Polish chick automatically disqualifies him from helping out, why does the Aut-Right trip over one another to eat the cuckfood Jimmie Walker dumps inside of conservative liar Ann Coulter?

    • Jack Spratt

      “I repeat: you gain nothing in 2016 America by criticizing jews, opposing immigration, and attacking feminism…except having the Jewish press lie and defame you, and Anarchist paramilitary groups vow to murder your family.”

      I disagree. ROK has ads and there’s a significant online market for criticizing Jews, opposing immigration and attacking feminism. The big-time PUAs wouldn’t have so much to gain, relative to their overall success, but with a smaller fry PUA like Roosh it’s significant.

      You’re right that it took some guts for Roosh to endorse MacDonald’s work. I give him credit for that, but the problem is that since then he’s regressed a lot, trying to troll the whole Alt Right (a group including many who went out of their way to try to include him) with “muh dick” idiocy.

      “I don’t consider every last person who isn’t of European descent on the planet to be my enemy, especially if they’re helping our cause out.”

      I don’t either. Still, ROK has never been a site I’ve seen as of any great worth. It’s always felt more like a glorified porn site than anything else, especially in terms of how the comment section had so much “letters to Penthouse” type drivel. I’m fine with reading the Heartiste comment section, but the ROK comment section has so much stuff that’s obvious bullshit that it’s hard to take the site seriously.

      “I ask once again, if Roosh banging some Polish chick automatically disqualifies him from helping out, why does the Aut-Right trip over one another to eat the cuckfood Jimmie Walker dumps inside of conservative liar Ann Coulter?”

      Coulter didn’t use her sexual past to mock the Alt Right. Roosh did, because he’s either stupid or deep down never wanted to be in an alliance with us.

      Generally speaking I don’t believe in attacking people who leave those to their right alone, though they have flaws. Coulter and Trump are two people who lately have been extremely half-assed in distancing themselves from those to their right. In contrast, Roosh bitched out like an anti-slut shaming SJW and mocked the Alt Right for wanting White women to be less degenerate.

    • EricStriker

      “I disagree. ROK has ads and there’s a significant online
      “market for criticizing Jews, opposing immigration and attacking
      feminism. The big-time PUAs wouldn’t have so much to gain, relative to
      their overall success, but with a smaller fry PUA like Roosh it’s
      significant.”

      It’s what people want to read, but it doesn’t get you more advertisements or revenue. If it did, Andrew Anglin’s Daily Stormer, with 3 million hits a month, would’ve made him a millionaire by now.

      “You’re right that it took some guts for Roosh to endorse
      MacDonald’s work. I give him credit for that, but the problem is that
      since then he’s regressed a lot, trying to troll the whole Alt Right (a
      group including many who went out of their way to try to include him)
      with “muh dick” idiocy.”

      I’ve been watching everything unfold from all sides. It was people claiming to be from the Alt-Right that out of nowhere and for no reason started the problem with Roosh. The cherry on top was when supposed dissidents sided with the international Jewish media invented hysteria about “rape rallies” (a complete lie) earlier this month. I don’t blame him for being angry, this is a pathetic episode and will likely be the beginning of the end of this popular front.

      “I don’t either. Still, ROK has never been a site I’ve seen as
      of any great worth. It’s always felt more like a glorified porn site
      than anything else, especially in terms of how the comment section had
      so much “letters to Penthouse” type drivel. I’m fine with reading the
      Heartiste comment section, but the ROK comment section has so much stuff
      that’s obvious bullshit that it’s hard to take the site seriously.”

      Heartiste is a vastly superior writer, but in the end , both RoK and Heartiste talk about the same exact things.

      “Coulter didn’t use her sexual past to mock the Alt Right.
      Roosh did, because he’s either stupid or deep down never wanted to be in
      an alliance with us.

      Generally speaking I don’t believe in
      attacking people who leave those to their right alone, though they have
      flaws. Coulter and Trump are two people who lately have been extremely
      half-assed in distancing themselves from those to their right. In
      contrast, Roosh bitched out like an anti-slut shaming SJW and mocked the
      Alt Right for wanting White women to be less degenerate.”

      Coulter is a piece of shit who sold her race out for money a long time ago.

      And I saw what you’re talking about with Roosh. He was responding to some nerd with a Japanese cartoon character avatar calling him a “kebab”. Need to stop taking this stuff so personally. I’ll add that it isn’t Roosh’s fault either, that women in Estonia and Poland will open up their legs for any stranger who has an American passport (if he’s even telling the truth about that).

      Most of the anger at Roosh is provoked by A) Movement hens and drama queens who as we speak are now bickering about one another B) Nerds that believe and are angry at the “Kebab” screwing white women while they sit at home jerking off. That’s not Roosh’s fault. Uninstall the Hentai, go to the gym, and go out and pick up some girls if you want female company, don’t huff and puff about kebabs (90% of whom never get anywhere with white women unless they’re rich or have an American passport) and helicopter memes.

    • Jack Spratt

      “It’s what people want to read, but it doesn’t get you more advertisements or revenue. If it did, Andrew Anglin’s Daily Stormer, with 3 million hits a month, would’ve made him a millionaire by now.”

      Anglin has been completely blackballed by advertisers. ROK in contrast does have Ads.

      “And I saw what you’re talking about with Roosh. He was responding to some nerd with a Japanese cartoon character avatar calling him a “kebab”. Need to stop taking this stuff so personally.”

      It’s not personal. It’s a question of power. If we’re going to have non-White allies invited to NPI events they have to be non-Whites that are under our control enough that they don’t openly attack us. It made Richard Spencer look weak and stupid when Roosh did that.

      As for the Anime nerd who called Roosh a Kebab. That’s the internet, man. If a major Alt Right figure called Roosh a Kebab and he responded by attacking the Alt Right, then I could see you saying the Alt Right started it. But the way the internet works is that in any movement some people in it will be attacking you if you’re a larger-scale figure like Roosh.

      “Uninstall the Hentai, go to the gym, and go out and pick up some girls if you want female company, don’t huff and puff about kebabs (90% of whom never get anywhere with white women unless they’re rich or have an American passport) and helicopter memes.”

      A problem with Roosh is that he’s promoting race-mixing which is destructive of the White race whether or not White men get up the nerve to learn from the positive aspects of PUA theory. Maybe the White girls Roosh bangs are such sluts they wouldn’t have been good for child-birth or rearing, but the fact remains that race-mixing of any kind undermines a taboo which should be strengthened.

      We live in a very degenerate time. For this reason some race-mixers may be involved in the Alt Right. This is a problem of itself, but the problem with Roosh was more pressing than with most race-mixers because of how he bragged so much about his race-mixing, doing everything he could to maximize the damage done by his behavior.

      The reason Roosh is a really big problem is that having “pro-White” people like Richard Spencer include Roosh in their events, in context of his promotion of race-mixing, made us look like we don’t believe what most of us really believe. It wasn’t an honest way of presenting our movement at all, and nothing of lasting good would’ve come of it.

      It’s true the same criticism applies to John Derbyshire, who is always trying to normalize White-Asian mixing and shouldn’t be considered a part of the Alt Right at all. Derbyshire should be blackballed from NPI and AmRen events just as much as Roosh for this reason, if you ask me.

      With Coulter she doesn’t try to promote race-mixing like Roosh or Derbyshire. That’s an important difference.

    • heraclitus

      couldn’t have said it better myself, montsalvat should stick to translating.

  • I’m glad to see the race-denialist, implicitly anti-white Rainbow Trad sector of thought coming under criticism. And Rainbow Trad, I think, is the correct label for that sector. it puts the hammer on the head of the nail. That said, I’ve seen far worse hatchet jobs against the right than that, and the author is correct on some points. I believe he is correct about the enthusiasm for capitalist ideas on the right; they do seem to have a Svengali-like grip on a lot of people’s minds. My perception is that capitalism in its current form, which, let’s face it, is an economic system for dupes if you’re not an oligarch or Wall Street trader, gets too much sympathy even from the younger set. Still, the article was sloppy in the main and plain wrong in many places, containing numerous inaccuracies and misstatements about the alt right. I’m surprised John Morgan published it. I thought he was a more careful editor than that.

  • heraclitus

    this

  • barzun

    Well done. You get it. This did all come out of imageboards. Anyone who has been involved knows it.

buried-alive

By: Matt Parrott


Matt is a founding member of TradYouth and is currently the project's Chief Information Officer. He's been active in the White Identity cause for years, primarily as a blogger but also as a street activist and regional organizer.
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