“Now THIS is fascism!”, or “New Requirements for Student Groups at I.U.”


I received an Email from Indiana University’s Student Life and Learning office the other day reminding me to renew my student group status, contact information, and adviser information. They were kind enough to also let me know about a couple new requirements for students groups.

Registered student groups are now required to have an adviser, and also to attend a mandatory student group orientation class. That we’ve gone so long without those requirements is surprising, but those are small potatoes compared with the other new requirement for student groups in the 2014-2015 academic year. We should all be worried about IU’s new requirement for student groups “…to sign a contract that explains your organization’s relationship to IU.”

Screenshot 2014-05-05 at 11.46.51 - Edited

All of these new requirements were unveiled in an April 14 Email to all student group presidents. There is also a new requirement for all student groups to attend an orientation meeting. Of course, all of these meetings are by RSVP only and are limited to the first 20 students, and a minimum of two students from each group are required to attend.

Screenshot 2014-05-05 at 11.53.48 - Edited

With these new requirements for student groups, Student Life and Learning is going to have to update some of their other public information about student groups, and they’ll probably have eat a slice of humble pie in the process.

Screenshot 2014-05-05 at 11.56.26 - Edited

You read it right, folks. IU-Bloomington has more than 750 registered student groups– For now. The student group orientation sessions can only host ten student groups at a time. Needless to say there’s no way that Student Life and Learning is going to be able to host 75 orientation sessions. I don’t expect that all student groups will want to put up with the hassle of attending a mandatory class just to have a running club, so come October 31 there are going to be a lot of student groups on the chopping block.

I don’t blame IU’s student groups for not wanting to put up with the hassle, but there’s no reason to put up with it in any case. Students don’t need permission from the university to exercise freedom of association and expression, and least of all do we need anyone’s permission to think or speak as we please.

These new requirements aren’t going to slow down the Traditionalist Youth Network at Indiana University. Not in the least. As it looks now, it will make things easier for me. As an unregistered student group I will have fewer university rules and regulations to follow. Well, it’s not like I ever paid much attention to the rules in the first place, but now the student group rules are truly a moot point for me. I’m also not worried in the least about losing funding or access to reserved spaces and rooms. I can’t “lose” something that I was never using in the first place.

Let’s not get all weepy and teary eyed about whether or not Traditionalist Youth Network at Indiana University has “registered” student group status, because it’s not going to change anything about the way that we do business. If you really want to lose some sleep over how these draconian requirements are going to negatively affect student groups and student participation with campus events and organizing, then go shed a tear for the well meaning students who won’t be able to do the simplest of things without having to jump through hoops ass first with a signed contract in hand.

Student Life and Learning’s new requirements for student organizations is going to negatively affect student participation in extracurricular activities, and also detract from overall campus participation in their coveted marketplace of ideas. IU-Bloomington can rightfully boast that it has a vibrant student organization community because we have more than 750 registered groups, but not after these new rules start taking effect.

Free speech and freedom of association cannot be mitigated by contractual obligations, nor should any student group suffer a Heckler’s Veto by virtue of not being able to find an adviser.  I’m also doubtful that there are 750 staff or faculty who are willing and ready to sign on as advisers, and this means that a significant portion of IU’s vibrant and expressive student groups are about to lose official recognition.

The university administration might have also paused to think a moment longer on their new requirements because they are losing the opportunity to provide oversight, supervision, and mentorship for more controversial organizations like our own.

Subversive and radical student groups will exist despite the university’s new requirements, but they will also be free of the university’s new restrictions. Traditionalist Youth Network at Indiana University has been on campus for almost one year now, and the university has had every opportunity to exercise oversight and supervision. Now that they’re requiring student group advisers they’re going to lose the ability to monitor and watch us.

There’s really not much more to say about the university’s new requirements except that it’s probably the most fascist thing to be seen on campus, easily out doing the other already well known “fascist” group Traditionalist Youth Network.

Despite what you might have heard, Traditionalist Youth Network isn’t really a fascist group. We’re both more liberal and more conservative than anyone on either side of the isle.  That’s part of what really confuses our opposition, and as a result they still don’t know how to categorize an authentic Radical Traditionalist student group. But if we really were fascists, then let’s all send a congratulatory letter to Student Life and Learning for being more fascist than anyone else around.

In the spirit of openness and transparency for all student groups, and in the interest of protecting a civil atmosphere of democratic participation, these new regulations should be dismissed. The university is hurting itself with these stringent new requirements for student groups.

Freedom of expression and association cannot be made contingent upon contracts and arbitrary permissions. Nothing less than dismissing contractual obligations and removing the requirement for advisers and group orientation will make the university that oasis of freedom and liberty that they claim to be.

If you’re upset about the new rules and regulations for student groups, feel free to Email Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Student Life and Learning, Steve Veldkamp, at [email protected] and politely let him know that the new requirements are unacceptable.  Alternately, you can send him a congratulatory letter for winning “fascist of the year” award.


  • costa

    Dear Thomas,
    When you big men march and appear antagonistic to those women who protest against rape.
    Does this give you the moral authority to nit-pick in a legalistic way against your school?
    Why not march WITH those women and say – “We’re *with* you and we *hate the rapists just as much as you do!”
    And – “Sure, you look a bit slutty, but let’s put our differences aside, since RAPE IS SUCH AN APPALLING CRIME”
    Befriend people, and then explain the inappropriateness of their dress sense.
    I think marching against rape victims sends the wrong signals about your traditions.
    Sure, in much of the traditional world, it’s traditional to rape and then blame women – but I’m sure this sort of tradition is worth ditching.
    Sure, when you’re young, you’re going to make mistakes, Lord knows, I did..
    Costa.

    • >When you big men march and appear antagonistic to those women who protest against rape.

      Read my after-action article. You’re taking our message completely out of context and misrepresenting it at the same time.

      >Why not march WITH those women and say – “We’re *with* you and we *hate the rapists just as much as you do!”

      Read my after-action article. Slut Walk had the opportunity to let us march with them.

      >I think marching against rape victims sends the wrong signals about your traditions.

      Read my after-action article. It explains what we were demonstrating for and against in explicit detail.

      >Sure, in much of the traditional world, it’s traditional to rape and then blame women

      Read my after-action article. Don’t be ridiculous. Tradition (with a capital-t) does not justify rape.

      >Sure, when you’re young, you’re going to make mistakes, Lord knows, I did..
      Costa.

      Read my after-action article. Everyone grows up, but not all stop making mistakes, and you’ve still got it all wrong.

    • Niemca

      Where is this ‘after-action’ article?

  • costa

    Soooo…the women rape victims mis-understood your viewpoints and wouldn’t engage you and embrace your organisation.
    And therefore you chose to march against them? Was that a tactical necessity?
    I mean, a smart move? Or a poor choice?
    If you go looking for trouble you will find it.
    I just don’t think siding AGAINST women protesting against rape is manly.
    Don’t you have better things to do than ruffle the feathers of these women?

    Have you not heard that in many traditional cultures, there are still cases where rape is blamed on women?
    If you could cite your sources, that would be a nice.
    Costa.

    • >Soooo…the women rape victims mis-understood your viewpoints and wouldn’t engage you and embrace your organisation.

      Wrong. Go read my after-action article.

      >And therefore you chose to march against them? Was that a tactical necessity?
      I mean, a smart move? Or a poor choice?

      Wrong. Go read my after-action article.

      >If you go looking for trouble you will find it.

      Right (sort of…). Trouble finds us. We don’t have to look for it.

      >I just don’t think siding AGAINST women protesting against rape is manly.

      Wrong. Go read my after-action article. Stop misinterpreting our position,

      >Don’t you have better things to do than ruffle the feathers of these women?

      Don’t be hate’n when our activism is right on target.

      >Have you not heard that in many traditional cultures, there are still cases where rape is blamed on women?

      You keep using this word, “tradition”, I don’t think you understand what it means. Once you give me your definition of tradition (with or without a capital-t) I’ll proffer a response.

      >If you could cite your sources, that would be a nice.

      Did you even read this article, or are you just dumping speaking points into your liberal trope generator? The sources are cited.

  • costa

    Dear Thomas:
    Many traditional cultures still allow rape within marriage. Quick:
    http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/03/26/why-india-allows-men-to-rape-their-wives/
    Perhaps if you are interested in this subject, you will find that in many other traditional cultures this is the case.
    If you make claims, you must back them up. Sure, my single example hardly proves the point and is a weak form of rhetoric but my (pre-world-wide-web) school days passed more than 20 years ago, and any student worth their salt could clearly demonstrate this point with half an hour researching traditional cultures views on rape. Despite my age, I hope very much I will never grow up.
    — Costa.

    • Still waiting for you to define tradition.

    • While you formulate your definition of what tradition means, try not to conflate tradition with primitivism (or whatever it is that tradition means to you) because it makes you like a patronizing and condescending prig.

  • costa

    I’m not Liberal. I’m an Orthodox Christian. This is my only identity that is meaningful to me – my Greekness is secondary. So I know about my own tradition(s), and my own Tradition, my faith. Not to be confused. Holy Tradition is the Living Word flowing through the mists of time – the Life Giving water.

    Sometimes, rarely, on a misty hike into the mountains you get to drink from the source, but mostly… well, it’s flowing out of taps, and contained within the traditions (small t) of human constructs – the water-treatment plant, the plumbing, and my glass.
    Is this a good enough distinction for you for the relation between tradition (man-made cultural stuff) and Divinely inspired Tradition?
    Costa.

    • You’re getting closer, but I need you to be a bit more specific because I don’t quite follow your example, and I’m not prepared to say that it’s correct.

      You can read my definition here:
      http://www.tradyouth.org/2014/02/tradition-excellence-and-modernity/

    • E777

      Can’t wait for Golden Dawn to take power in Greece and deport this guy to San Francisco, where he belongs. Liberalism and Orthodox Christianity are incompatible. Ask any SERIOUS Bishop (IE outside of the USA) about gay marriage , rootless cosmopolitanism or slut walks. You have to be out of your mind to support such things.

      You’re a Hollywood Orthodox Christian. You approach Orthodoxy like Richard Gere approaches Buddhism, you’re a joke.

    • costa

      E777 Χρυσή Αυγή καταδικάστηκε ευρέως από 80 επισκόπους στην Ελλάδα. Είναι ειδωλολάτρες.
      Αναρωτιέμαι τι άλλα μέλη της Νεολαίας Trad θα συνιστούσα την υποστήριξη παγανιστική αντι-χριστιανικές ομάδες όπως η Χρυσή Αυγή?

    • costa

      Dear E777,
      The position of so-called “Gay marriage” is clear in the Holy Orthodox Church in my lands. The revelation and reality of the salvific nature of the man-women relationship and also the theological ramifications prevent it from being a possibility. It is just not possible – it is the wrong answer to the wrong question.
      So even if you do come out of your closet, E777, I’m afraid that you won’t be able to marry your boyfriend, not in my Church, anyhow.
      Sorry to bear this bad news to you.

      –Costa

  • costa

    I hate cheating and borrowing quotes, but if I must, here’s a rather good quote on this topic by a convert to my own faith:
    “Tradition is the living faith of the dead, traditionalism is the dead faith of the living. And, I suppose I should add, it is traditionalism that gives tradition such a bad name.”
    — Costa.

    • You’ve almost got it completely backwards. I’d recommend that you look at G.K. Chesterton’s Orthodoxy.

      “Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.” -G.K. Chesterton

      At least I have the modesty to not quote myself while making a defense of myself. For Chesterton, Tradition IS the application of Traditionalism. If I’m reading your quote correctly, then you’re flatly opposed to the Traditionalist school of thought and any of its practical applications. Is this a fair interpretation of your sentiment?

    • costa

      The reason I prefer the quote from my own Faith tradition is that it reflects our mindset…After all, brilliant though he was, GK Chesterton was a Roman Catholic living in a Protestant land (England) and therefore highly influenced by his local tradition. A Western expression of Christianity had been in that Island for circa 1000 years, so the cultural baggage of exaggerated Augustinianism, Anselmianism, along with incompatible atonement theologies contrary to my own Orthodox Christian Tradition, rather dampens certain things he may say from the theological perspective. Nuances are a little out of tune with the Patristic landscape we tend to inhabit.
      But none of this would take away from his mastery of witticisms. He was a bloody funny English chap, wot wot, and no living English journalists today are remotely as funny and educated as he was.
      All that said, his books, and CS Lewis too, are a real blast.
      — Costa.

    • costa

      Thomas – do *you* support the widely condemned Golden Dawn in Greece? condemned by 80 Orthodox Christian Bishops?
      –Costa.

  • costa

    Thomas, your piece was on education, more than tradition – did you mean to put that link, or have you pithily defined it elsewhere?
    What? You ask an Orthodox to /define/ something? Really? And you expect a pithy compact and understandable response?
    😉

    Costa.

    • Yes, the piece was about education but it was also about bringing a greater definition to what Traditionalism is. If you can’t give a pithy and compact answer to a question, then maybe comments section debates aren’t for you.

      You didn’t answer my question either. Are opposed to the Traditionalist school of thought and any of its practical applications? Is this a fair interpretation of your sentiment?

    • If you’d like to see a different article in which I try to define Traditionalism then you can read this one:

      http://www.tradyouth.org/2013/07/traditionalists-live-in-a-fantasy-world/

    • costa

      Will read your second piece in due coarse, Thomas.
      — Costa.

  • costa

    Thomas,
    Re-read my quote by Jaroslav Pelikan that I was borrowing.
    And note I sometimes sign of using “–Costa”.
    I was signing off, not using my own quote.
    I am humble enough never to claim to be humble, I’d rather be known as an immature, priggish, concescending, because I certainly am all those things. Just ask my wife 😉

    “I hate cheating and borrowing quotes, but if I must, here’s a rather good quote on this topic by a convert to my own faith:
    “Tradition is the living faith of the dead, traditionalism is the dead faith of the living. And, I suppose I should add, it is traditionalism that gives tradition such a bad name.”
    – Costa.”

    So, that’s cleared up… I was quoting Jaroslav Pelikan in his masterful work on Tradition:
    http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Vindication_of_Tradition.html?id=ZhTPvDdv82AC&redir_esc=y
    I’m FOR being traditional but AGAINST the deadness of traditionalism.
    I’m FOR taking the best of the past and using the best of today’s technology.
    As a rule of thumb, I’m rather averse to any “ism”, truth be told
    — Costa. (And those above are my own words, just to clarify.)
    “You’ve almost got it completely backwards. I’d recommend that you look at G.K. Chesterton’s Orthodoxy.

    “Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.” -G.K. Chesterton

    At least I have the modesty to not quote myself while making a defense of myself. For Chesterton, Tradition IS the application of Traditionalism. If I’m reading your quote correctly, then you’re flatly opposed to the Traditionalist school of thought and any of its practical applications. Is this a fair interpretation of your sentiment?

  • costa

    I would add: It’s precisely since I’m so traditional that I’m against the “traditionalist school” – the perenialists and so forth. It’s contrary to my own faith to embrace such esoteric universalism. I’m guessing we agree on that school of thought?
    — Costa.

    • I’m glad that we’ve figured out what we’re disagreeing over (took us a right long time to get to it, yeah?), and I would reply that what you’re supporting is actually a rigorous dogmatism.

      Traditionalism does have some universalistic qualities to it, but I would add that Christianity does as well. At least insofar as we claim it to be the one True Faith and that it is as perfectly suited for the Jew as it is for the Gentile, or anyone else for that matter. My own studies of Traditionalism and its practical application has taught me that there is a particularism to each group of people who practice it.

      I see your interpretation and application of Christianity as smoothing out and denying cultural and spiritual differences and nuances, whereas my own interpretation of Christianity and its application in respect of Traditionalism allows for the greater cultural and spiritual expression and development. Please don’t mistake me as having an egalitarian streak, because I assure you that is most definitely not the case.

    • costa

      Orthodox Christianity baptizes cultures during the process of Mission, (rather like the Hellenic Culture was also baptized during the Patristic Era) so, there might be some smoothing out in that process, but there’s still no way I’d be denying differences. So there are certainly undeniable inter-cultural differences (even if they are intra-religious, in the example I am pondering).
      Does that make sense?

      A Perrenialist/Universalism view is contrary to the Orthodox mindset I grew up with – my received Tradition. Yes, I can see how this can be seen as dogmatic and rigorous.
      But still in disagreement of the symbolic interpretation young men protesting against women rape victims. It’s just asking for trouble.
      Costa.

    • (face/palm)

      >young men protesting against women rape victims.

      For the nth time, we weren’t protesting against rape victims. This point was made explicitly and repeatedly in my after-action article and in other places.

      >So there are certainly undeniable inter-cultural differences (even if they are intra-religious, in the example I am pondering). Does that make sense?

      YES. It DOES make sense, and those un-deniable differences are what we’re working in defense of when we’re not speaking out against rape culture and slut culture. It really seems that we’re more in agreement with each other than either of us know, so let’s keep this going…

  • costa

    “For the nth time, we weren’t protesting against rape victims. This point was made explicitly and repeatedly in my after-action article and in other places.”
    But you were there, right? And they asked you not to be?
    Consider the symbolism of just being there, regardless of motive.
    –Costa.

    • >But you were there, right? And they asked you not to be? Consider the symbolism of just being there, regardless of motive.

      We’re on the record with our position against rape culture and victim blaming, and if we wanted to derail their march– WE WOULD HAVE. Did you see the title for our demonstration? It was called, “Half-Way Opposition to Slut Walk”.

      Are you purposely ignoring everything that I’ve said and written? If you can stop jumping to conclusions and LOOK at what our message was there is no logical way that you can arrive at the conclusion that you keep accusing us of. If you need us to be evil so badly that you’re willing to purposely misinterpret everything that we’ve said, then you don’t need to come here and debate it with anyone.

  • costa

    Dear Thomas,
    Good article, on tradition – I particularly enjoyed the quote by one of my favourite English journalists, GK Chesterton:

    ““It is obvious that tradition is only democracy extended through time. It is trusting to a consensus of common human choices rather than to some isolated or arbitrary record,” Chesterton said, “tradition may be defined as an extension of the franchise. Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead.”

    Again, though, I would firmly contrast Tradition, tradition, being traditional, etc to the insipid insecurity and the narcissism of traditionalists, which is a perversion of these wonderful aspects of humanity and culture, by those whose only virtue is being born within a particular faith or tradition.

    No, I don’t think you are evil, and please, I am not a hater, and yes, I’ve read your positions. So, let me attempt to appeal to a sense of good manners and propriety regarding this whole affair… let me explain.

    The symbolic meaning: Is a march a debate?

    A gedankenexperiment:

    Suppose you are a radical fundamentalist pacifist and are against the use of force and war in any form, regardless of circumstances and consequences. Let’s say your traditional religious background supports this – your background is Mennonite or Quaker, so you have lots of support and a strong power base and a well of tradition to appeal to.
    Suppose this is happening during the recent Iraq war.
    And so you create a website outlining your position on war, and why it is wrong.
    Let’s say your political group is called something like:
    “End all war”.

    Suppose some particularly horrendous bomb killed a bunch of soldiers, and their bodies have been flown back to their home.
    Now, suppose there is a march happening, organised by the wives of those killed by that.

    So, you, studiously write lots of articles about the wrongs of war, about how death and killing is wrong under all circumstances, using this particular atrocity as an example. And you contact the group saying “We deeply regret all deaths, so we want to march with you”. And you get a reply by the organisers saying “Please do not come. We know your extreme pacifist views, and we think that there are certain times when the might of force must be used”.
    So you write some more articles about the wrongs of war and issue statements to the press.
    And then you come along to the march with banners saying “No more war”. And let’s just say, that it ends in tears.

    Sure, it’s essential to debate, but having a sense of propriety and knowing the best platform to explain views that might take more than a few seconds to explain, and are contrarian… do you really think that a march is a place to do that?

    Which brings me to raise some questions. What is a march? Is it a platform for didactic discourse and education? Does it have deeper symbolic meaning?

    — Costa

    • I’m not going to agree to your alternate universe example which hasn’t ever happened. Don’t ask me to take the place of a Straw Man. Go read our before-action and after-action articles and tell me if what you’re imaging is anywhere close to what actually happened, or if it is even close to matching with what we have publicly stated.

      >insipid insecurity and the narcissism of traditionalists

      You are deliberately misidentifying a principle with its representatives. I have repeatedly and explicitly told you that we were not demonstrating against rape victims. (Pause. Repeat that in your mind a few times. Continue.) Julius Evola covered this in his Men Among the Ruins, so here it is right from the man himself:

      “In many regards the decay of traditional institutions began with the corruption of their worldly representatives. The effective dissolution and destruction has been made possible by the confusion between principles and people; this is another weapon of the occult war. When the representatives of a given principle prove to be unworthy of it, the criticism of them extends immediately to the principle itself and is especially directed against it.”

      The quote starts on page 259:
      http://www.juliusevola.com/julius_evola/texts/MenAmongtheRuins.pdf

      This is exactly what you’re doing. All of us at TradYouth thoroughly reject what it is that you’re accusing us of, so instead you try to refer to a vague example of someone else that gave you sour grapes, you hold us guilty for the crimes of another, and then accuse the entire Traditionalist school as being faulty.

      But, I know why you’re mad. You’re just saying it because we’re white. Prove me wrong– triple dog dare.

    • costa

      Streight question, Thomas:
      Do you support Golden Dawn?
      –Costa.

    • Oh, get off of it already- Forget about Golden Dawn and stop running away from the argument. You’re just mad at me because I’m White.

      You said:
      So there are certainly undeniable inter-cultural differences (even if they are intra-religious, in the example I am pondering).

      So you’re okay with inter-cultural and intra-religious differences for just about everybody except White people. Stop trying to make us renounce our cultural and ethnic identities.

    • costa

      Come on, dear chap – do tell… It’s a simple question that demands a very simple answer. I know you can’t do thought experiments and analyse the symbolic nature of things. So I’ve kept it sophomorically simple for you, you’re American after all…. (I get that you don’t know what a thought experiment is)
      –Costa.

  • costa

    I shall intercede for the prayers of Mother Maria Skobsova to enlighten you, Thomas.
    Of course it is not because you are white. I’ve had a parallel arguement with someone who was black, who complained when I disciplined him at work. I fired him because he was a poor worker. I’m wondering why you are fetishising about the color of your skin? Don’t you love yourself? You should. We are all made in the Divine Image.
    So, from one man to another – just answer a very simple question? Or if not, could you explain why not? (eg “who the hell are Golden Dawn?)
    –Costa

    • The difference is that you have no authority over me, and that I’m not fetishizing over “muh whiteness”. My writing is probably the least explicitly pro-white writing you’ll find anywhere on this site, by any author, so you’re already off base.

      Going off topic like that is really smarmy and is pulling a low punch by bringing in something that isn’t even related to the original argument. I’m not playing your six-degrees-to-Hitler game if for the only reason that my great uncle was killed in action fighting the Axis powers. I’m not going to cheapen the memory of his loss by coming out as a national socialist so go think it over for a minute before you accuse of this again.

      You said:
      “So there are certainly undeniable inter-cultural differences (even if they are intra-religious, in the example I am pondering).”

      Why are you mad at us for advocating in the interests of our people and culture, why do you think that we can’t be Orthodox Christians while doing this? You either support inter-cultural differences or you don’t, so stop waffling and pick one side of the fence.

    • costa

      “So you’re okay with inter-cultural and intra-religious differences for just about everybody except White people. Stop trying to make us renounce our cultural and ethnic identities.”

      I’m not. It was YOU who brought up the subject of whiteness, not me:

      “But, I know why you’re mad. You’re just saying it because we’re white. Prove me wrong– triple dog dare.”

      I couldn’t care what colour you are.

      A relief though, to hear, but a sorry loss to. Memory Eternal.

      “I’m not going to cheapen the memory of his loss by coming out as a national socialist so go think it over for a minute before you accuse of this again.”

      But you don’t mind associating with impressionable young people that DO wish to cheapen his memory? What would he think of you associating with the very people who have such ideologies? Have you no ninja rhetoric skills to influence them against these ideologies?

      — Costa

    • >Have you no ninja rhetoric skills to influence them against these ideologies?

      That’s sort of exactly what we do. It’s called monthly reading discussions. I’ve been holding regular reading discussions for almost a year now, and we’ve covered a significant amount of material.

      No, I’m not letting it go. Answer the questions about inter-cultural differences. We’ve already established that they exist, and we’ve already established your belief in inter-cultural differences. What we’ve not established yet is whether or not you think that inter-cultural differences are good or bad, and if they do exist whether or not it’s okay to protect those differences as being an integral part to a peoples identity. And don’t change the topic. Just get straight to the point.

  • costa

    Dear Thomas,
    The pagan neo nazi Golden Dawn group, were condemned by 80 bishops in Greece for their anti-Christian views. But I see that other members on the Trad Youth write uncritically in support:
    http://www.tradyouth.org/?s=golden+dawn
    I would seriously ask you (ple?) to reconsider your position on this Neo Nazi group, Thomas. Perhaps you don’t understand the nuances of Greece right now, but they are very, very dangerous. You are a young man with your whole life ahead of you, so I appeal as one Christian to another, to take care. This is fire you are dealing with… not a bit of a silly party on a campus in the USA. Please don’t waste your life, you do seem intelligent.
    — Costa.

    • >This is fire you are dealing with… not a bit of a silly party on a campus in the USA

      NO KIDDING! Why do you think I take this so seriously? I can’t count on one hand the number of times that I’ve been attacked for standing up in defense of Christianity and my own inter-cultural differences (the same ones that you admit exist), I spent nine years with the Marines, and I did three trips to Iraq inside of a 5 1/2 year period. Tell me again that I don’t take this seriously.

    • costa

      Thomas,
      “NO KIDDING! Why do you think I take this so seriously?”
      I’m pleased you have come out and taken Golden Dawn seriously. I’m pleased to hear you distance yourself from the pagan anti-Christian thugs, and I guess it makes sense that you would do that, especually as a man of honour, an ex-Marine:

      “I spent nine years with the Marines, and I did three trips to Iraq inside of a 5 1/2 year period.”

      So it’s good to hear an ex Marine come out on the side of Christianity and against Golden Dawn.
      We need more disciplined people like you to take a stand against paganism.

      — Costa.

    • Don’t put words in my mouth, that’s really not cute. But, thanks for the compliments.

    • Ready to come clean yet? You started this argument, so tell me what the word is. Lay it out there on the line and quit dancing around the question.

      You said:
      “So there are certainly undeniable inter-cultural differences (even if they are intra-religious, in the example I am pondering).”

      Why are you mad at us for advocating in the interests of our people and culture, why do you think that we can’t be Orthodox Christians while doing this? You either support inter-cultural differences or you don’t, so stop waffling and pick one side of the fence.

    • costa

      Dear Thomas:
      “So there are certainly undeniable inter-cultural differences (even if they are intra-religious, in the example I am pondering).”
      What is there not to understand?
      It’s your modus operandi. I explained earlier. It’s un-Christian.
      — Costa.

    • You’re telling me, point blank, that protecting those inter-cultural differences that are integral to a people’s identity is “un-Christian”?

    • costa

      “You’re telling me, point blank, that protecting those inter-cultural differences that are integral to a people’s identity is “un-Christian”?”
      No. It’s more complex. It’s your modus operandi. Picketing Rape victims (Westboro Baptist Style is far worse, mind you, picketing funerals). And your organisation’s associations with known Neo-Nazis groups (I’ve highlighted one for you already) and despite your own Uncle’s memory, your cowardly reluctance to distance yourself from them. (Oh boy, what *would* the other neo-nazis think in this group?).
      But instead, you begin imagining I’m indulging in some kind of “Reductio ad Hitleram” sort of rhetoric.
      Of course you must freely enjoy your religious and cultural heritage, as should we all. No brained. So make the most of it: write music, poems, dance, party, develop new branches of mathematics. Invent things. Pray. Celebrate life to the deepest of your talents, enriching yourself from your own traditions. Indeed, I rather think people who are estranged from their own cultural and religious heritage have a very hard time understanding and appreciating *any* other cultures. What’s the confusion? Why would I think otherwise?
      — Costa.

    • >Picketing Rape victims

      [face/palm intensifies] GO READ THE EFFING ARTICLES THAT I TOLD YOU TO. You are so completely wrong on this– why are you purposely misrepresenting us? I’ve already told you what the case was, and I’ve written about it at least twice.

      > Indeed, I rather think people who are estranged from their own cultural and religious heritage have a very hard time understanding and appreciating *any* other cultures.

      This is EXACTLY the argument that I’ve been making the whole time. Welcome to the club.

  • costa

    : Correction:
    “Of course you must freely enjoy your religious and cultural heritage, as should we all. No brained.”

    I meant: “….. No Brainer.”
    — Costa.

    • costa

      Thomas,
      Really, this was what you imagined I had difficulty proclaiming?

      “Indeed, I rather think people who are estranged from their own cultural and religious heritage have a very hard time understanding and appreciating *any* other cultures.”
      “This is EXACTLY the argument that I’ve been making the whole time. Welcome to the club.”

      So, who on earth PREVENTS people white people from doing their own thing in your country, the USA? That’s just insane to imagine. Do you get refused permission for your Churches to get built? Are you prevented from worshipping? Do you all get the worst jobs? Are your languages banned?

      I could understand your fight for survival if you were an Orthodox Christian, or a moderate Shia Muslim, or an Alawite, in Syria right now, fighting for existential survival. Or a Coptic Christian living in Egypt unable to get a permit for a new Church. Or a white farmer living in under Robert Mugabi’s neo-nazi regime? Sure, if any whites need a bit of support and advocacy and Christian Fellowship, they do! But the predominant culture in the United States? Being outlawed? Are you nuts?
      You are American – living in the world superpower, in a country where WASPS are the elite, complaining at your lack of influence so much you imagine you have to form a support group and get all het up by the length of girl’s skirts?

      It’s madness, I tell you. Madness (Even bigger, double handed facepalm)

      But back to all seriousness, I’m relieved you have distanced yourself from the National Socialists, Golden Dawn, and other Neo-Nazi groups that are de-facto anti-Christian. And no doubt you’d also like to distance yourself from that very highly lapsed Roman Catholic, Robert Mugabe? Your great uncle would be proud to hear that.
      –Costa.

    • >So, who on earth PREVENTS people white people from doing their own thing in your country, the USA? That’s just insane to imagine. Do you get refused permission for your Churches to get built? Are you prevented from worshipping?

      After all we’ve gone through in this argument, and the only reason that you came onto this site to comment, you have the gall to question who’s standing in our way? Go look in a mirror.

    • costa

      >So, who on earth PREVENTS people white people from doing their own thing in your country, the USA? That’s just insane to imagine. Do you get refused permission for your Churches to get built? Are you prevented from worshipping?

      “After all we’ve gone through in this argument, and the only reason that you came onto this site to comment, you have the gall to question who’s standing in our way? Go look in a mirror.”

      So I closed denied your permit to build your new Church? You make a mockery of Orthodox Christians to whom this happens daily when you come and play the victim card. For many of my own Brothers and Sisters in Christ, this is a daily reality. The Patriarch of Antioch’s own brother has been *kidnapped*, probably killed… So don’t come over all “victim” on me, it doesn’t suit you at all.

      Still, Thomas, tiresome though you have found this, at least we’ve established that you do not support the pagan-inspired Golden Dawn and other Neo Nazi groups. That’s a good thing. I won’t be a bore and ask you, as an exercise, to point out why their teachings are antithetical to the Orthodox Christian Phronema (A Greek word, meaning “Christian World View”).
      I won’t ask since I know when I’ve already tested patience – It could easily fill a Masters level thesis at divinity school.

      But it’s a start, and good to hear you are educating others in your organisation about the dangers of the Neo-Nazis in their various guises. I’m impressed to hear – it won’t be easy, it’s far easier to cling to ideologies and concepts.
      So, I offer, for your edification, a quote from St Gregory of Nyssa, one of our Orthodox Church Fathers from the great Patristic age:

      “Concepts create idols; only wonder comprehends anything. People kill one another over idols. Wonder makes us fall to our knees.”

      Keep wondering,
      — Costa.

  • Kip

    Costa:

    Not sure why you are defending Slut Walk, unless it is simply a stubborn desire to gainsay anything said by anyone on this website. This is a group that encourages women to take on an “anything goes” approach to sexuality and to flaunt their bodies as some kind of right. People associated with them have been doing things like stripping their clothes and relieving themselves in the street. They are of the same spirit as “Pussy Riot”, the Satanist group in Russia which was doing stripteases in a church. I realize the Orthodox have a reputation for leftism but I cannot think even they would support that as Putin threw them in jail for this. Now that I have explained it to you I’m sure you will no longer defend them.

    Regarding Golden Dawn: 80 priests have condemned it? Big whoop, I can find 100 priests that support abortion, homosexuality, illegal immigration, and any other number of left-wing causes. Greece, like most of Europe and America, is in the grip of Jewish supremacists. The fact that you hurl prejudiced insults while Golden Dawn tries to prevent the takeover of Greece by Africans, Pakistanis, and other Muslims says much more about you and the priests who have condemned it than it does to testify about any evil committed by Golden Dawn.

    The whole world has much to fear from Zionism (by the way, why is there such a thing as a “European Jewish Congress”? Where is the “Chinese African Congress”? Why do Jews need any influence in Europe?) than it does any “neo nazis”. I’m sure if you open your eyes you will see where the real evil is coming from.


By: Thomas Buhls



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