Letters from White America: Apple Trees and White History


"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -Martin Luther

“Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.”
-Martin Luther

This is Black History Month, and every February my children are forced by the public school to participate in celebrating the history of African-Americans.

About the first week of February, their school hallways and classrooms prominently display pictures of African-American civil rights leaders, most notably Martin Luther King, Jr., and Rosa Parks.

Exercising the freedom which citizens enjoy when they have protection of their civil rights is something I do every day, and that gives me reason to believe that because of that freedom America is one of the greatest countries in the world.

Along side these celebrations of freedoms won, my children learn about the lived experiences of African-Americans as slaves, and also as civil rights activists in the 1960s.

My children learn a great deal about the life and times of Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and then they learn about African-American culture.

Most recently, they were taught traditional chants from the African-American community including Swing Low (Sweet Chariot) and Go Down Moses, so they could learn about unique musical culture and traditions of the African-American community.

My children were also taught about the significance of the African Baobab tree, and how the tree is an important part of African-American culture. They dutifully recited various facts about the Baobab tree, including the long life which these trees typically have.

I am a White man married to a White woman, and my children are White. Celebrating cultural themes, civil rights leaders and traditional customs of African-Americans is as foreign to my children as college level math.

What my children have been celebrating in our public schools is as far removed from our own heritage and cultural traditions as the Baobab tree is from our home in rural Indiana.

My wife and I teach our children about their heritage and culture throughout the year, so we are happy that we are not constrained to only one month.

Our children celebrate the life and times of Daniel Boone, Davey Crockett and John Chapman. These men were American explorers and politicians who helped create what we call the United States of America.  The historical commitments and sacrifices which these men made have elevated them to folk-legend status.

In keeping with these traditions of hard work and success, my wife and I showed our children how to plant a tree. We dug the soil, removed the stones and sweated and struggled to fit a large sapling into the ground in our backyard.

It is under that tree, an apple tree, that we teach our children about American history.


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Letters from White America: Apple Trees and American History by Thomas Buhls is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.




  • Spelunker

    Is their something wrong with recognizing and celebrating the achievements of, and contributions to our society, by peoples of different cultures? Why is it such a big deal that everyone thinks their culture needs to be recognized more than another? Perhaps a superiority complex? What’s wrong with celebrating all cultures equally? I think it’s great for one to recognize the importance of their own culture. Whites should learn about and celebrate the good things their culture has brought to the rest of the world, just as they should do the same for other cultures. Instead, you come off sounding like a big baby missing his pacifier. Paraphrasing, “My poor kids have to learn about Black culture too. Boo hoo. Waa, waa.” Stop being cry babies. Speaking as a non-White Nationalist, if I was a White Nationalist, you’d be laughed away just for being such a big baby.

    • LadyGodiva

      It’s funny that you mention all the contributions whites have made to the world. Just curious. Do you believe that gives whites the gut to take over other people’s countries. For example why should whites pay for Saudi oil or Chinese rare earth if the world belongs to everyone equally and in any event those countries would be backwaters without white technological contributions.

      Do you think Chinese public schools teach their children to be oh so grateful to the White Man who made their country what it is today. I am sure they do not, because they are not trying to humiliate, dispossess and destroy their founding population ALL Western governments are doing.

    • Spelunker

      Lady Godiva. Although we live under a system in which land is bought, sold and owned, that does not mean that I agree with it. For example, I own a home, not outright, but mortgaged. Even though I don’t necessarily agree with division and ownership of land, that’s the world I live in and so I live within the constraints of that world. I do believe that every inhabitant on the planet deserves some space to themselves. I believe there is plenty to go around. I don’t believe that any one person or group of people have any right to lay claim to any specific piece of land or that it “belongs” to them. Keep in mind, these are just my feelings and I don’t dictate the ways of the world to the world’s populace. These divisions of land and idea of ownership are arbitrary. I do not have any feeling at all in any way what “White” people, however you want to define that should conduct themselves, nor do I really have an opinion on how the Chinese should conduct themselves. I don’t really care about race, color, sex…. In my world, we’re all equal. You, I, blacks, whites, Muslims, Jews. I’m not the one lobbying for division. I think there are plenty of resources to go around. I think we can all choose to live amongst one another in peace. Do I believe whites have a right? No. No one has a “right” to anything really. I also didn’t mention any contributions really, just acknowledged that clearly, all races make contributions to our world and I see no reason why the contributions of one are or should be viewed as more significant than another. In a perfect world, you’d be happy because there would not be a reason why we need an entire month to recognize the contributions of African Americans. I am always hoping and working myself towards that perfect world. Until that day…

    • LadyGodiva

      If nobody has a right to anything then nobody has a right to barge in and taking over white people’s countries either then. You anti-whites constantly hectoring whites about morality until whites assert our own rights. Then you play dumb and posit an amoral universe.

    • JPOutlook

      You anti-whites constantly hectoring whites about morality until whites assert our own rights. Then you play dumb and posit an amoral universe.

      Thread winner. Point out the contradictions and sit back to watch the anti-whites spin their wheels. “Point and sputter, muh racism, muh racism”

    • I am not “anti-white”. I am anti-racism. The two positions are mutually exclusive.

  • When Africans were brought against their will to work as slaves in a foreign land, those responsible sowed the seeds for an American future that they had little or no idea they were creating. Once this forced mass immigration was underway however, there was no way that American history could not include Africans. The assumption of the white owners was that blacks would always be slaves to whites, because they believed that having been born white made them innately superior to those born other than white. Since the first Africans would not speak any English, the white owners would have not realised that in reality their slaves were humans, and not animals to be tied up like oxen.

    Blacks now account for 14% of the US population, and one of their number is now your president, albeit, half white. Very few 100% full blooded Africans remain, so there is now an irreversible union taking place between the many races in the giant melting pot that is modern America.

    I don’t believe in racism or nationalism, both of which are ways of saying that I am better than someone else because my parents are white, or I just happened to be born in a certain country, through no effort at all of my own. Racism brings damage in both directions and is utterly pointless. It works against me as much as against people of races different to me. However I do believe in recognising and valuing the contributions of great men and women of history to the achievements of a particular country.

    I have no problem with Black History month or LGBT History month, as in both cases, the size of the demographic warrants it – blacks 14%, and LGBT about the same, are roughly 1/12 of the population, so why not have 1/12 of the year. Life still goes on for heterosexual whites just as before but at least you get a little taste of what it’s like to walk in another man’s shows. Just for a little while.

    • typo “shows” should be “shoes”

    • TheRangedMartialArtist

      “I have no problem with Black History month or LGBT History month, as in both cases, the size of the demographic warrants it” But but but, I thought civil rights wasn’t a zero sum game! That’s what all you anti-Whites keep bitching about whenever my people object to our genocide.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “…there is now an irreversible union taking place between the many races in the giant melting pot that is modern America.”

      Your comment is standard anti-white dogma. The bizarre line of “reasoning” goes something like this: because slaves were brought to North America, there must be an “irreversible union” in which all whites on the North American continent are required to become Africanized hybrids.

      This goes beyond a mere non-sequitur, though it’s certainly a whopper in that department. More to the point, it’s utterly insane. If you are still capable, which I doubt, I would suggest that you reflect upon the monstrous nature of what you have written.

      Sorry, Derek, but you won’t be dictating the fate of whites on the North American continent. Whites do not seek or require the permission of anti-whites such as yourself. We seek to go our own way, separating ourselves not only from the non-whites, but from cultish lunatics such as yourself.

      So feel free to let others “melt” you down, or worse, indulge in grotesque fantasies of “melting” other peoples down, destroying their identity and traditions. You are every bit as arrogant, vicious and ignorant as the slavers of the past which you (falsely) believe yourself superior to.

      But don’t worry, you aren’t alone in your vicious and immoral nature, or in your indulgence of sick fantasies. You have the entire System on your side: all of government, all of corporate America. All peddling and enforcing the same vile message that you are. You should be proud.

    • @Trainspotter

      If a white woman falls in love with and marries a black man, or a white man falls in love with and marries a black woman, you may end up with Barack Obama – a constitutional lawyer, Nobel prize winner who is President of the United States.

      Who are you to tell other people whom they should and should not fall in love with, marry and create interesting new people?

      You talk of ‘whites’ as though there is a single, racially homogeneous body of Americans who believe as one and think as you do. There is no such thing as “the white race”. We are all a DNA amalgam of millions of different racial tributaries, lost in the ocean of time. You may find this newspaper article informative (delete spaces to open link):

      w w w .dailymail. co . uk/news/article-2493491/White-supremacist-Craig-Cobbs-DNA-test-reveals-hes-14-African.html

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Who are you to tell other people whom they should and should not fall in love with, marry and create interesting new people?”

      You don’t understand my position, Derek. You are operating on false assumptions, spoon fed to you by the System. I’m not interested in lording it over anyone. That’s not what this is about. Quite the reverse, actually.

      If some people want to racially mix, that’s on them. I think it’s a mistake, and I’m not going to pretend that I approve of it, but again, it’s their decision.

      But today, we are faced with a situation where those of us that value race and tradition are actively suppressed and punished. Where we can’t even transmit our values to the next generation, except on a few blogs. All of the normal lines of cultural transmission that a people require to sustain itself have been cut, all institutions have been denied to us. This has been a top-down enforcement effort.

      We live in a System that actively gloats that we are being reduced to minority status, actively discriminates against us, and hectors us constantly. Race mixing is strongly encouraged, and opponents of this are demonized and treated as heretics. We must not only accept our dispossession, but actively applaud it. Literally cheer it on. It’s sick, twisted, Orwellian stuff.

      I could go on and on, but the point is, the System is clearly and unapologetically hostile to us and our values, and like you, looks forward to turning our people into non-white hybrids.

      I’d appreciate your being honest and acknowledging what I’ve just written, because it is obviously true: the System is hostile to us. If you instead claim that we are operating on a level playing field, and the values of white nationalists are just as valued as that of the System, then no meaningful conversation is possible. The truth is that, under the status quo, we can’t even make our case. Every authority figure preaches the party line.

      We want our own ethnostate, with our own institutions and exercising our own self-determination. Whites only. There will be no non-whites to oppress or exploit, or to oppress or exploit us. We must do our own work. Those whites who insist upon using non-white labor must leave our borders, and they should be free to do so.

      What constitutes a white? What qualifies someone as a member of the tribe? That’s for us to decide, your approval or opinion is not solicited or required. Tribes form as they form, always have and always will. Don’t worry, we’ll work it out. Somehow, we’ll muddle along without you.

      I have no problem with those who want to racially mix having their own land or lands. I don’t seek to deny others what I demand for myself.

      If lunatic whites want to turn themselves into the Coloureds of South Africa, or the teeming slums of Latin America, that’s on them. I think whites that want to do that are out of their minds, but I don’t seek to stop them. However, they should not be able to impose their choices, and the results of those choices, on those who are unwilling.

      In order to have true self-determination, we need our own land and our own institutions. Back to your example of the white woman who wishes to mate with a black. She would be free to do so, just not among us. If she wishes to produce mixed offspring, she should have the courage of her convictions and live in a mixed community. She must not be allowed to operate as a free rider, living off of and taking the advantages of a homogenous white community, while simultaneously undermining that white community, and destroying the very thing that she is sponging off of. That is unreasonable, unjust and destructive.

      She has no right to impose her choices upon the white community, thereby unilaterally transforming it into a mixed community. In so doing, the institutions of the community would have to change, at every level. Most importantly, she would be unilaterally altering the very definition of the tribe, the very meaning of who we are. I certainly don’t recognize her right to do that.

      Allowing race mixers in the community would change the essential narrative of the tribe, who it is, where it came from, where it is going. It’s very story, it’s identity. In so doing, it would change everything else, such as how the schools operate, what is taught, etc. In short, she would be bringing the tribe back to the System of multicultural liberalism, the very System that is destroying us, the very System that we wish to be free of.

      It’s a big continent, and an even bigger planet. There is plenty of room for lunatic whites who wish to blend into the non-whites (assuming those non-whites will have her, I’m guessing many non-white communities won’t, and will find her every bit as revolting as we do). But she has no right to impose that upon our tribe, and such a thing will not be allowed in the future ethnostate. The exit doors should be clearly marked: “Lunatics Exit Here”

    • I am sure blacks can tell you what they lost through slavery and racial discrimination, and I can tell you what gays lose every day the world over, including our lives. When it comes to LGBT, no matter what gated community you shut yourself away in, you’ll never be able to eliminate gays because you are our parents. My whole family is heterosexual apart from one gay uncle.

      Apart from a bit of hurt pride, I’d like to see actual evidence of what you’ve specifically lost as a result of the Civil Rights Act (1964), and decriminalisation of homosexuality.

  • Spelunker

    If the author was so destroyed by their children being “forced” in public school to be exposed to different cultures and ways of life, it’s perplexing why the author doesn’t seek a different means of education for said children. I just hate it when the Gubmint makes me do things too.

  • You accuse me of being “anti-white”? I AM white! You also need to learn the meaning of the word “genocide”, which is the extermination of a particular race. Google is your friend.

    Once you’ve updated yourself on that, please come back with actual EVIDENCE of mass killings of whites by non-whites – dates, times, number killed etc will do.

    Meanwhile, take a look at ACTUAL evidence of genocides of whites BY WHITES: you can start with Nazi Germany, and work your way through the Balkans. Then there are genocides of blacks by blacks in Africa.

    As for homosexuals, no genocide against us can ever succeed because you are our parents. My parents are heterosexuals.

    You completely undermine any merit in your case by evident paranoia, and hysteria.

    • The above comment is in reply to TheRangedMartialArtist, but is out of sequence in this thread. I recommend Disqus as a better gateway for this kind of discussion because it allows editing and deleting of one’s own comments.

    • TheRangedMartialArtist

      First of, this is why the word treason was coined.

      Second, genocide as defined by the UN is any action designed to wipe out a people in whole or in part; it doesn’t matter if its through bullets, bombs, and mustard gas, or through mass immigration, forced assimilation, and White guilt propaganda.

      Third, you’re homosexual, great! Just stay a safe distance from any children.

    • Spelunker

      Derek, don’t you know? Genocide doesn’t necessarily occur through mass extermination campaigns. Demographic displacement is the new genocide. Whites are being out-bred right out of existence. The signs are everywhere! (Sarcasm)

    • @ TheRangedMartialArtist

      My comment was not approved by the moderator, so I will try again with the links removed:

      Your children are probably safer with a homosexual person than with a heterosexual person, if evidence and research are anything to go by. There is no evidence to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia. On the contrary, there is evidence to refute it.

      University of California:
      h t t p ://psychology.ucdavis. edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html (remove spaces to open link)

      American Psychological Association (over 173,000 members, the largest such professional body in the world):
      h t t p ://www . apa. org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

      Conflating homosexuality with pedophilia is mendacious and malicious. If all gays were pedophiles then we would have zero rights and would all be serving time in jail. The overwhelming majority of pedophile assaults are by men against girls, usually the father/stepfather or other relative or close friend of the family. Statistically, children are safer with gays than they are with straights.

      That said, just because most pedophiles are heterosexual, doesn’t mean all you heterosexuals are pedophiles either. Whether children are safe with YOU seems to me to be far more questionable, given your extremist ideology. You are raising your children to feel superior to others just because of the way they are born, not through personal effort and good behaviour. That can’t end well.

    • We approve most all comments, all except for the e-cigarette spam-bot comments. If your comment wasn’t approved, it’s most likely because we just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

    • Spelunker

      Unfortunately Derek, superiority is the name of the game round these parts of the internets, regardless of how much some people like to claim that it is not. I don’t suppose that people of their likeness can be bothered by trivial things such as facts. I’ve never been beaten by a Black, touched by a gay, or lost a job to a person who speaks Spanish… But the important thing to remember is the fabric of society is deteriorating before my eyes, I guess?

    • @Thomas Buhls – thank you. I’ll wait a little longer in future. In other forums, I have learned that “moderated” means “evaporated”, so thanks for approving this one. You may as well delete the duplicate if you can.

      Derek Williams

  • Spelunker

    “Third, you’re homosexual, great! Just stay a safe distance from any children.”

    This is such an asinine comment. What does sexuality have to do with an individuals treatment of a child?

    • civil rights apostate

      homosexuals are more likely to rape children than heterosexuals, I’m told. Anyway, all wild mammals, birds, reptiles, and amphibians, as well as most fish, are heterosexual. We should all be too.

    • Who told you that I am “more likely to rape a child”?

      There is no evidence to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia. On the contrary, there is evidence to refute it (remove spaces to open links):

      University of California:
      h t t p ://psychology.ucdavis. edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

      American Psychological Association (over 173,000 members, the largest such professional body in the world):
      w w w .apa. org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

      Conflating homosexuality with pedophilia is mendacious and malicious. If all gays were pedophiles then we would have zero rights and would all be serving time in jail. The overwhelming majority of pedophile assaults are by men against girls, usually the father/stepfather or other relative or close friend of the family. Statistically speaking, children are safer with gays than they are with straights.

      That said, just because most pedophiles are heterosexual, doesn’t mean all heterosexuals are pedophiles either.

  • LadyGodiva

    Slelunker and Derek

    Exaggerations about non-white contributions to the building of America are used to justify our dispossession and eventual genocide by forced assimilation. For example the fact that some Asians were hired to build railroads is used as an excuse for unwanted mass Asian immigration. Whether you think this is right or wrong, it is extremely dishonest to deny that this harms whites, given that anyone who isn’t blind can see that whites are being wiped off the face of the Earth one mixed race birth at a time.

    • Please educate yourself before commenting any further. There is no such thing as “the white race”. Whites are already the result of interbreeding of Angles, Saxons in the UK for a start, and a vast mishmash of other diverse cultures with a DNA common with Africans, Indians, Asians, Arabs, and which EVERY living creature shares in common.

      You are not superior to other human beings just because your parents happened to have parents who had parents descended from the Vikings.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Please educate yourself before commenting any further. There is no such thing as “the white race”.”

      I’d say LadyGodiva is leagues ahead of you in the education department, but no matter. I see you’re back to spouting System-approved drivel, this time claiming (predictably) that there is no white race. Are you like one of those wind up dolls for spouting System platitudes? Do you actually think for yourself, or just engage in mindless parroting and transparent propaganda? My God.

      It’s funny that anti-whites know exactly who we are when it is time to condemn us for historical crimes (while ignoring equal or greater non-white historical crimes), discriminate against us by force of law, accuse us of white privilege, etc.

      When it’s time to attack us, you have no problem figuring out who we are. But when we advocate for ourselves, when we defend ourselves, all of a sudden you are deaf, dumb and blind. “White race? Whatever are you talking about? There is no such thing!”

      LOL! I really wonder, does the utter hypocrisy and duplicity ever wear on you? For example, in a comment on this very thread, you were discussing white slavers. When it suited you, when you were attacking whites, you had no problem identifying us. Now, on the very same thread, you claim whites don’t exist! I mean, really?!? How do you look at yourself in the mirror? What a bizarre universe of utterly self-serving contradictions you inhabit.

      But the most telling thing is that anti-whites such as yourself never subject non-whites to this criticism. Can one imagine you doing this to the Apache, or the Chinese or the Koreans? No, of course not, though the same sort of critique could easily be launched against them.

      Here’s a hint, Derek. People define themselves. Tribes form as they form, always have and always will. Nobody is asking for your permission, and nobody requires it. The Japanese don’t need your permission to define themselves, and neither do the Navajo. And here is the shocker, Derek: neither do we. I know that’s a hard one to take for an anti-white lunatic.

      The Navajo don’t consult me as to who they are or how they define themselves. Neither do the Japanese, or any other group of non-whites. We won’t be consulting you, either.

      But the arrogance and viciousness that you exhibit, demanding that other people be “melted” down, or that YOU get to define who constitutes a tribe or a people…LOL! If our situation were not so dire, you would be a regular laugh riot.

    • @ Trainspotter

      I had to sift through your hysterical exaggerations and ad hominem comment to find anything supported by fact. I don’t find anything proven in your comment that persuades me that I am inferior to you because I take people as I find them, not because their skin is darker than mine. I see no point whatsoever in defining myself as superior to other people. Conceit isn’t helpful.

      I don’t find anything proven in your bloated commentary that persuades me I should have better employment opportunities, better education, higher pay, the right to vote, merely because my parents are ‘white’. I use inverted commas advisedly, because I don’t know whether if I go back far enough down my ancestral family tree (traceable to the 17th Century) I mightn’t find a bit of Spanish, Jewish, or even African blood. Charles Darwin and Richard Dawkins, both pre-eminent scientists are worth reading to find out where YOUR racial roots originally come from, and it isn’t North America.

      You believe yourself to be part of a single homogeneous entity that you define not by achievements, but by skin colour. Skin colour has nothing to do with your worth as a human being. You are not superior to people with darker skin than yours. You are not superior to me. I am not “anti-white”, I actually AM ‘white’ – but who knows what you or I might find if we go back far enough?

      It is ridiculously important to you to define yourself as superior to other people, not because of what you’ve done to make the world a kinder place, but because through no effort whatsoever on your part, you had ‘white’ parents. You accuse me of arrogance, but if you re-read your posts, you’ll come to realise that your attitude of conceit and sneering superiority is the epitome of arrogance.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “I had to sift through your hysterical exaggerations and ad hominem comment to find anything supported by fact.”

      Since you’re a little slow on the uptake, let me help you. It is a FACT that, earlier in this very thread, you discussed white slavers. It is also a FACT that, later in the thread, you claimed whites don’t exist. It is a FACT that you made these ridiculous claims, and I pointed out the glaring contradictions. Anti-whites know exactly who whites are when they are attacking and condemning them, but when whites defend themselves, it’s “What are whites?!? Whites don’t exist!!”

      How much clearer can I be, Lil D?

      Derek: ” I don’t find anything proven in your bloated commentary that persuades me I should have better employment opportunities, better education, higher pay, the right to vote, merely because my parents are ‘white’.”

      Maybe you didn’t find such a thing in my commentary because…it wasn’t there. I make no such claim. I seek autonomy and self-determination for my tribe, and have no interest in harming others. I don’t seek to deny others the autonomy that I seek for my own people.

      Derek: “You believe yourself to be part of a single homogeneous entity that you define not by achievements, but by skin colour.”

      Dude, you are so inebriated with System drivel and platitudes that you have no idea what I believe. But I find it interesting that your particular variety of loon would never say such a thing to the Chinese, the Apache or the Koreans. You’re just an anti-white bigot, and not a very bright one at that.

      Derek: “It is ridiculously important to you to define yourself as superior to other people…”

      I haven’t defined myself as superior to other communities. My people are my people, warts and all. We don’t have to prove that we are superior in order to justify our own existence. That’s a mug’s game.

      I will, however, admit to defining myself as superior to YOU. You spout nothing but drivel on the level of an after school special aimed at tweeners, yet you imagine that you are showering us with the light of wisdom. LOL!

      So yes, I do get a bit cocky when a mediocrity presumes to lecture his intellectual betters. And, to employ the vernacular of the playground, which even you might understand, “You started it!” The moment you absurdly told another commenter to “educate” herself, when all you were spouting was the lowest order of pablum, well, the gloves were off. And there are anti-white posters here that I am at least civil with, but jesus christ, all you peddle is warmed over garbage.

    • Your response is littered with distortions of what I said, personal insult, and other emotionally inflammatory language supported by neither fact nor evidence. Fist pounding doesn’t make you more and more convincing. and more and more correct, it serves only to detract from whatever point you’re trying to make about your perceived racial supremacy.

      I repeat, there is no such thing as “the white race”, any more than there is a “Scottish race”. There is a Scottish people, composed of all kinds of strands of humanity, united by geography, and tradition, but it’s impossible for you or me to trace our roots convincingly back to a single tribal identity. When I referred to “whites” conducting the slave trade, it was a generic use of the term, well known terminology used to distinguish the traders from the black Africans seized as slaves.

      America IS a great melting pot of immigrants, and if you want to get down to the minutiae, American Indians were the original inhabitants, who had their continent invaded by religious pilgrims followed by all manner of exploitative traders.

      If you want to go and start your own “tribe” nobody is stopping you. You can build a wall around yourself, just like the Amish. If anyone is delusional, it is your goodself.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Fist pounding doesn’t make you more and more convincing.”

      LOL! Demolishing your after-school-special level arguments constitutes fist pounding?

      Derek: “American Indians were the original inhabitants…”

      Interesting. So American Indians exist, but Europeans (whites) don’t? Unless you need to condemn them, in which case they do exist? But when they defend themselves, they cease existing again? LOL!

      Fists pounding!

    • Read my other reply to your other post below. I never said “whites don’t exist”, as clearly I exist. I said “there is no such thing as “the white race”. There are of course ‘Caucasians’, but there is no way you can assemble them all into your deluded vision of a single same-thinking tribe of white supremacist racists.

      Do whatever you have to do to make yourself feel superior to others, but I’m afraid you haven’t convinced me that my pale skin makes me superior to President Obama, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu or Martin Luther King.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “…but I’m afraid you haven’t convinced me that my pale skin makes me superior to President Obama, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu or Martin Luther King.”

      I didn’t try to convince you of that. Peoples have a right to exist whether they are “superior” or not. No non-white tribe has to prove its superiority in order to have its existence respected. Do the Tibetans have to prove “superiority” as they resist their displacement by the Chinese? Neither should whites. Life is its own justification.

      Derek, I don’t know what your line of work is, but you could probably find a great side income in constructing straw men.

    • Now you accuse ME of straw man? Your postings are littered with them. For example you accused me of claiming “whites don’t exist”, when clearly, since I am white, and I do exist, and you (I presume) are white and you exist, so there’s two right there and we haven’t even started counting the other 300 million or so in USA alone. I never once said “whites don’t exist”. I DID say “there is no such thing as ‘the white race'”. There is a Caucasian racial grouping but in the context of North America, which is the context for this dispute, your so-called “white race” is actually a medlely of many races including European, North African and Arabic. That’s an entirely different proposition.

      You say, without evident embarrassment that I claim “all whites on the North American continent are required to become Africanized hybrids”. That’s a long stretch from stating the obvious that miscegenation is inevitable and irreversible. That horse bolted even before the Civil Rights Act (1964) abolished the Jim Crow anti-miscegenation laws. Nowhere did I claim, nor do I believe that this should be mandatory. It is merely inevitable.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “…your so-called “white race” is actually a medlely of many races including European, North African and Arabic. That’s an entirely different proposition.”

      So whites exist…but the white race doesn’t? Makes perfect sense. Going back and forth with you on this is pointless.

      Derek: “Nowhere did I claim, nor do I believe that this should be mandatory. It is merely inevitable.”

      The idea that it is “inevitable” that all whites will become Africanized hybrids is ludicrous. The System would love it, but it won’t happen.

      Even if it did happen, which it won’t, it will only be because of a the top-down System enforcement that has in essence cut our cultural lines of transmission, and ensures that all authority figures preach the party line. And that party line is anti-white, coming from the same System that has trained, much in the manner of a lap dog, you to say exactly what you say, word for word.

    • Your so-called “White Race” is an amalgam of many races, and will become an amalgam of many more as the centuries roll inexorably forward. American ‘whites’ derive from a different genetic heritage to Europe, yet Europe is a part of your heritage. It’s Nature at work, ensuring diversity. Your arguments show you are opposed to genetic diversity because you want to limit procreation and organise your society to within your own limited racial grouping. That isn’t straw man, that is a perfectly logical conclusion to be inferred from your desire for white isolationism. Again, there is nothing stopping you from doing that if you choose, since you are free to live where and how you choose, and mate with whomever you choose. But it won’t end well if you eliminate genetic diversity from your “tribe”. The same rationale helped bring the Plantaganet strand of the British royal family to an end, through incestuous couplings, as was the case with the Romanov Dynasty, ultimately incurring genetic diseases like haemophilia that befell the son of the last Czar of Russia.

      In terms of your claim I was mandating “Africanised hybrids”, I repeat, I never originally said this. Those are your words, not mine.

      You haven’t adduced any facts, just opinion, no links to evidence at all. Nor have you explained what rights you don’t enjoy that prevent you from living as you please.

      This dispute is going around in circles. I think it’s time to end this.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “It’s Nature at work, ensuring diversity.”

      It’s top-down System enforcement. Naturally, as we see from their actual behavior, people have a strong tendency to self-segregate. How do you think individuation and speciation even occur, throughout nature? But the System bemoans this natural process, and considers it evil – at least where whites are concerned. It constantly comes up with new schemes to impose and promote racial mixing. HUD recently came up with a proposal to determine the racial composition of every neighborhood in the country, so as to facilitate greater integration. Yeah, that’s natural. The Hollywood and Madison Avenue propaganda machine is “natural” too. Pfft.

      In any event, it is you who are opposed to nature and true diversity, and are in favor of an artificial, top-down System agenda of mixing. Own it.

      Derek: “In terms of your claim I was mandating “Africanised hybrids”, I repeat, I never originally said this.”

      Then give me the offending quote – it should be right on this page. I didn’t state it in the way that you dishonestly imply.

      I think I’ve been both clear and fair to you in terms of my representation of your positions, as opposed to your lies about my being a “supremacist” and various claims of superiority, but if there is any confusion: you have been entirely supportive of turning whites into hybridized Africans throughout this exchange. You’ve said it was “inevitable,” and you seem perfectly content with the System that is enforcing it. You also used a historical argument (white slavers) to justify what is happening today. I haven’t misrepresented you at all, though squirm as you will. Again, you simply will not own the basically despicable *logic* of your own position. Instead you falsely suggest wrongdoing on my part, when there has been none. My mocking of you has nothing to do with my presentation, and refutation, of your claims.

      Really, the entire exchange has been like this. You were called out on obviously nonsensical, inconsistent, and despicable claims. Your response? Try to shift the conversation into even more nonsensical tripe. You’re fine with the concept of a “Caucasian race,” but the term “white race” sends you into a titter. Apparently, you think this is worth arguing over. LOL! Yeah, that’s what the issue at hand is all about. You’re so busy squirming, evading, and twisting that you remind me more of a squid squirting ink than anything else.

      Derek: “You haven’t adduced any facts, just opinion, no links to evidence at all.”

      The evidence that I need is on this very thread. Your ludicrous and false claims, your gross violations of simple logic, and your desperate attempts at evasion are all here for any reader to peruse. This thread is my “link,” and the ridiculous posts that you have made on it are my evidence. I think interested lurkers will benefit.

      Derek: “This dispute is going around in circles. I think it’s time to end this.”

      It’s not going around in circles. You’ve been solidly trounced. Or really, more accurately, simply exposed for what you are. You’re an anti-white System toady, a water boy.

    • Opinions are not evidence. Personal insults and ad hominem are bullying behaviour, they are not rebuttal.

      If anyone is still in this forum after this tiresomely circuitous ‘debate’, they can indeed read back up the thread for themselves. Regardless of what you or I wrote, they will have their own opinions.

      You have all the freedoms you need. Your fears, if not groundless, can certainly be addressed in the open and free society you enjoy. There is no “system” preventing you from expressing your opinion here, or anywhere. You can associate with anyone you choose, marry anyone you choose. For you this hasn’t been a search for truth, it has been about having the last word, in a display of argumentativeness and paranoia.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “For you this hasn’t been a search for truth, it has been about having the last word, in a display of argumentativeness and paranoia.”

      And yet you continue, attributing to others the very behaviors that you have engaged in. Do you kick others as you scream out in pain?

      Derek: “If anyone is still in this forum after this tiresomely circuitous ‘debate’, they can indeed read back up the thread for themselves. Regardless of what you or I wrote, they will have their own opinions.”

      I hope at least a few people do. After all, it was for them that I wrote. You’ve provided a textbook case of anti-white bigotry and dishonesty, and perhaps some lurkers can benefit from the exchange. They’ll certainly run into many of the same platitudes, slipperiness, and basic dishonesty that you have exhibited here. Again, textbook. Derek, I assure you, nobody could accuse you of original thought!

    • Instead of bleating “poor me” at vacuous length here, go start your own racist colony. Literally no-one is stopping you. It’s all in your febrile imagination.

  • Trainspotter

    Derek: “I repeat, there is no such thing as “the white race”…”

    Then have the courage of your convictions: if whites don’t exist, then you should oppose all quotas, set asides, preferences, etc. Do you?

    But all sane people understand that we do in fact exist. Tribes form as they form. We don’t require your permission or acknowledgement, any more than the Apache or the Scots. We define ourselves, your input is not required.

    Derek: “When I referred to “whites” conducting the slave trade, it was a generic use of the term, well known terminology used to distinguish the traders from the black Africans seized as slaves.”

    LOL! So again, you can identify whites when you need to in order to condemn them, but when whites seek to defend themselves, Herr Derek proclaims they don’t exist. That is, until he needs to condemn them again. Shakes head. You people really are beyond reason, or even the most elementary logic.

    Derek: “If you want to go and start your own “tribe” nobody is stopping you. You can build a wall around yourself, just like the Amish.”

    Glad we have your support and permission, though we don’t need it and didn’t ask for it. But if you think “nobody is stopping” us, you are utterly delusional, or have lived under a rock for the last forty years.

    • I’ve never once claimed “whites don’t exist”. I never even implied it. I said I am white, and I can confirm that I definitely do exist. You are putting words in my mouth. I said, and I repeat again, “there is no such thing as the ‘white race'”. Nor is there any such thing as the “Scottish race” or the “Spanish race”. That doesn’t mean Scots don’t exist, or that there are no Spaniards.

      Caucasians are a known racial category, but there is no way you’ll ever persuade all Caucasians to unite under your banner of “white is right”. That is delusional.

      I repeat, nobody is stopping you starting your own ‘tribe’ of white supremacists. You can assemble your assortment of like-thinking racists, buy a plot of land big enough to house you all, and then kick off your Amish Nova.

    • re “White Americans”:

      “The majority of the more than 300 million people currently living in the United States consists of White Americans, who trace their ancestry to the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.”

      h t t p ://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#White_Americans

      (Delete spaces to open)

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “I’ve never once claimed “whites don’t exist”. I never even implied it.”

      You did, but I’m glad that you have come to your senses.

      Derek: ” I said, and I repeat again, “there is no such thing as the ‘white race’”

      Sigh. So much for that. Well, go tell the medical establishment that their race based information isn’t “real.” Tell them that known differences between the races should be ignored and suppressed, that it should not influence diagnoses or treatment, since the white race doesn’t exist – according to Derek and his merry band of cultists. Sure, you may end up getting various patients killed, but who cares? Am I right? Demand that the Centers for Disease Control quit specifying race as a risk factor for various illnesses! Go for it, Derek!

      Either that, or quit quibbling over semantics. You know perfectly well what the term white generally signifies in terms of the American historical experience. If you don’t like the word, make up your own. Our people still exist, whatever they are called.

      Derek: “Caucasians are a known racial category, but there is no way you’ll ever persuade all Caucasians to unite under your banner of “white is right”. That is delusional”

      So you are cool with the idea of a Caucasian race, but saying “white race” gets your panties in a twist? Whatever.

      As for complete unity, I don’t think anybody is expecting that. There are obviously a subset of white lunatics that are hostile to their own people, and will side against us in pretty much any conflict. Obviously, we don’t want them any more than they want us. Part of separation is leaving the detritus behind.

      But again, tribes form as they form. Those whites that want to go a different direction are free to do so. The future ethnostate will only be for those whites who want to be a part of it. Race is vital, but there are other considerations as well. Not all whites need apply.

      Derek: ” I repeat, nobody is stopping you starting your own ‘tribe’ of white supremacists.”

      Firstly, I have no interest in being “supreme” over non-whites. Instead, we want self-determination. Calling me a supremacist is simply an inaccurate smear term. Secondly, you are living in a fantasy world if you think the System is not suppressing us. Acting as if we are free to do as we please, setting up white colonies and transmitting our cultural values without System interference, makes you appear delusional, or at best childish. That’s not the reality on the ground, and if you are at all concerned with reality, you know this perfectly well.

    • @Trainspotter

      I have read through my comments again, and again, nowhere did I claim “whites don’t exist”. I am white. I exist. That’s the end of the matter.

      In no way am I bossed around by your imaginary big brother “System”. I have freedom to do whatever I want. I already invited you to list what freedoms and civil rights you consider YOU don’t have.

      While there are Caucasians, there is no such thing as “the white race” because we are a motley collection of Angles, Saxons, Normans, Vikings and a host of other untraceables. I already told you that White Americans trace your ancestry to the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa. Not all those races are Caucasian. Some are Arabic for example.

      Argumentum ad hominem is not rebuttal. Just because you can type out your opinions with ever increasing vehemence, doesn’t transmogrify them into fact. How about some links to actual hard evidence to support your opinions?

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “I already invited you to list what freedoms and civil rights you consider YOU don’t have.”

      Let’s see. We can start with freedom of speech and freedom of association, one of which is de facto curtailed (outside of a few blogs) and the other curtailed directly by force of law. Even freedom of speech is directly curtailed by force of law in many traditionally white countries.

      But let’s go on: being spied upon, infiltrated, and disrupted. If you know anything of the history of white nationalism, you’d know what I’m talking about. No, I’m not providing links to this, as I’m not your research monkey. If you don’t believe me then A) you’re astonishingly ignorant and B) you are free to research the matter yourself. But this idea that white nationalists are free to tiptoe through the tulips with a cooperate System is utter nonsense. Absolute rubbish.

      Essentially, living in an Orwellian anti-white police state that not only celebrates our dispossession as “progress,” but demands that we applaud and celebrate our own dispossession. Despite paying taxes (which are disproportionately transferred to other groups), not having a single authority figure, not even so much as a solitary public school teacher, who is able to advocate openly for our interests, much less someone in high office or a truly influential position. O.K., we have Professor Kevin McDonald, who is only surviving because he got tenure first, but the school has caused him no end of trouble for his pro-white views. This in a “nation” of 300 million people. For all practical purposes, we are completely shut out of academia, as well as all other institutions of any note.

      I could go on all day with this, but the point is that OF COURSE you don’t see any problem with the System. You’re a toady for the System. You carry its water. You question nothing and regurgitate everything. You preach exactly what it tells you to preach. He who does not move does not feel his chains.

      But oppose the System orthodoxy, and I assure you, it’s a different ballgame. It’s now apparent to me that you were not merely being childish when you suggested that we were free to do as we please, that “nobody” is stopping us. You’re delusional, or just plain ignorant.

      Derek: ” I already told you that White Americans trace your ancestry to the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.”

      We define who we are. Just as the Apaches define who they are, or black Americans define who they are, or Tibetans define who they are. It’s none of your business how we define ourselves. If you genuinely can’t figure it out, you might want to get checked for Aspergers. Non-aspies know what we mean by “white”: people of European descent. It’s really not that hard, and we, not you, will address whatever borderline cases arise.

      Derek: “How about some links to actual hard evidence to support your opinions?”

      What in the world have I claimed that requires a link? I’m not making wild and esoteric claims here. I’m speaking in terms that a reasonably informed person should understand. I’m refuting your spurious claims, lack of basic logic, smears and strawmen.

      Outside of this post I’ve made few specific claims, instead pointing out the glaring nonsense and contradictions in your posts. What few specific claims that I’ve made are well know by reasonably informed people (you really didn’t know that the medical community has identified different risks and susceptibility to certain conditions on the basis of race? Come on).

      If someone genuinely doubts the veracity of what I’ve claimed, I doubt that the links I would provide would satisfy them. They are free to research any matter themselves, choosing their own sources. But I don’t make false claims, unlike yourself. I don’t need to. But by all means, point out – specifically – a factually false claim that I’ve made. Not just a difference of opinion or values, but a factually inaccurate claim. And if you can’t do it, quit implying otherwise. In my book, that’s lying.

    • You say, in the context of racial ‘purity’, “We define who we are”. OK, genealogical records actually define that, but if you want to rewrite history, it’s up to you.

      Freedom of speech:
      We’ve never had absolute “freedom of speech”. Try perjury, contempt of court, defamation, incitement to commit crime and fraud for starters. These are deprivations of freedom of speech, yet they’re accepted without a murmur by the majority. If people decided en masse that they wanted to lie in court, tell lies about people, incite criminal behaviour and perpetrate fraud, then they could lobby politicians to return to the general populace such ‘freedoms’ of speech.

      Now, exactly what is it you want to say that you feel you cannot say, or are you frightened to write it into a post on this thread?

      Freedom of association:
      To my knowledge, the only associations that are outlawed are those intent on perpetrating criminal acts, such as terrorism. Surely you don’t want such a right? What other association can’t you have, unless it’s the Ku Klux Klan?

      If you want to make various claims, then it’s up to you to support what you claim by adducing evidence, such as what rights you don’t enjoy because of racial equality and what you’re not allowed to say, whom you’re not allowed to associate with. Why should I go scouring the internet to find your evidence for you?

      Your opinions are not rebuttals, and nor does your liberal use of personal insult, and logical fallacy such as straw man and argumentum ad hominem amount to rebuttal. In fact you don’t respond point by point at all. Saying “I could go on all day with this”, and a host of generalisations and unsubstantiated accusations (“You question nothing and regurgitate everything”) denote exasperation, but little else.

      There is nothing stopping you from living as you please, procreating as you please, eating as you please, associating as you please, and believing as you please. And if for some reason you can’t do any or all of these things, you haven’t explained how racial diversity is preventing you.

      Get over yourself.

  • Trainspotter

    Derek: “OK, genealogical records actually define that, but if you want to rewrite history, it’s up to you.”

    No, actually tribes define their own membership boundaries. What they make of genealogical records is up to them, not you. It’s none of your business. I doubt any tribe has ever consulted you, and I doubt any tribe ever will.

    Derek: “We’ve never had absolute “freedom of speech”

    Yawn. Yet another straw man. I never claimed that we did. But anyone who hasn’t been living under a rock for the last several decades understands that pro-white advocacy is treated as heresy these days. Yet you, like an utter loon, apparently can’t even acknowledge that much. It goes to your basic dishonesty. Apparently your operating procedure is simple: lie about everything, including things that don’t need to be lied about.

    Derek: “Now, exactly what is it you want to say that you feel you cannot say, or are you frightened to write it into a post on this thread?”

    I’ve explained that we have been excluded from virtually every institution of note in the nation, and that not a single public official can openly advocate for us. This in a land of 300 million people. Our lines of cultural transmission have been almost entirely cut, outside of a few blogs. That’s not enough to sustain a people, which is why we need full sovereignty and full control over all of our own institutions.

    But how about we impose the reverse: cleanse all people like you from every institution, destroy your career if you speak out publicly, but we’ll leave a handful of blogs that you can write on. Fair deal? Freedom of speech, right? Surely you’ll agree to the wonderful offer I’m making.

    Derek: “To my knowledge, the only associations that are outlawed are those intent on perpetrating criminal acts, such as terrorism.”

    You really aren’t aware of the plethora of anti-discrimination laws that apply to who people can sell their homes to, who they employ, who they serve, and a million other things?

    You’ve got to be kidding me, and the idea that the System is just going to sit aside as we openly build our own white colonies is beyond absurd. I’m not just mocking here, but I now think that there really is something wrong with you. No way could a normal, sentient adult not know this.

    Any white colonies that are built will have to be under the radar, and will have to be careful not to run afoul of an enormous raft of laws designed to encourage racial integration. Even then, those colonies will still be operating under a hostile System, until an actual and sovereign ethnostate can be formed.

    Derek: “Why should I go scouring the internet to find your evidence for you?”

    I’m not expecting you to scour the internet. I would expect a normal, non- mentally ill person to already be aware of the enormous array of laws designed to open up white communities and establishments to non-whites, thus putting the lie to your absurd notion that the System is fine with us creating our own exclusive colonies. Your position is utterly bizarre. Where in the world have you been for the last 40 years?

    Derek: “Your opinions are not rebuttals, and nor does your liberal use of personal insult, and logical fallacy such as straw man and argumentum ad hominem amount to rebuttal.”

    This is such a perfect description of what you have been doing all thread, that I’ll leave it be. But if you can point out ONE logical fallacy, one straw man argument, one fallacious claim, that I have engaged in, I’ll be happy to address it. I certainly plead guilty to engaging in ad hominem, but only after I demolished your nonsense, and you earned every bit of it.

    Derek: “There is nothing stopping you from living as you please, procreating as you please, eating as you please, associating as you please, and believing as you please.”

    We’re talking about a people here, and what it needs to survive as a people. We’re not talking about what I can do as an individual. You don’t even understand that much?

    Derek: “Get over yourself.”

    Most of the cheerleading squad can’t be wrong, though admittedly, it’s been awhile.

    • Instead of bleating “poor me” at vacuous length here, go start your own racist colony. Literally no-one is stopping you. It’s all in your febrile imagination.

    • Trainspotter

      I hope and believe that whites are in fact starting to create their own colonies. But they need to be under the radar, because your ridiculous claim that “nobody” will interfere, that the System is benign and fair toward white nationalism, is beyond delusional.

    • You can live anywhere you like, that you can afford. If you buy a farm, you can create your own Jonestown. The only thing that brought that to an end was the mass suicides. The government never interfered with Jones, and they don’t interfere with the Amish. Your fears are paranoid.

    • Trainspotter

      Actually, if memory serves, Jonestown itself was under some degree of government pressure, which was at least part of the pretense for the suicides. But no matter, as Jonestown is not the issue here, nor is it a model that we would seek to emulate. We’re talking about the fate of a people, not a handful of zealots hanging out on a farm as their folk are destroyed.

      The actual issue is that of living under an anti-white system that actively promotes the displacement and de facto genocide of whites. You simultaneously defend this despicable process, and yet at the same time claim that all is peaches and cream. Just a squid squirting ink.

      Or more to the point, an anti-white bigot justifying white genocide, lamely talking out of both sides of your mouth, and spewing nonsense as your absurdities are exposed.

  • KO

    Wow, that was exhausting. If anyone doubted that people from different cultural traditions are mutually unintelligible, consider it proven.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek is an anti-white bigot, justifying white genocide. I suppose there is a “tradition” of that amongst a narrow subset of lunatic whites, but that’s about as far as it goes. Most whites, of whatever cultural region or tradition, do not stoop to his level of basic dishonesty combined with aspergery nonsense.

      He needs to own his despicable and absurd claims, and not have it placed upon a broader white cultural group. I’ve very rarely met even a New Englander as nutty as he is, and I’ve known quite a few.

    • Fully of name calling, sneering invective, with zero rebuttal or adducing of any plausible evidence. This is all your private opinion and in terms of zealotry, you’re right up there with Jones. Let me give you some advice. You don’t win the hearts and minds with this sort of language and this sort of approach. Let me guess, you’re Christian?

      I repeat, buy yourself a thousand acre property and raise your tribe there as you see fit. No-one will stop you so long as you do not break the law. You might start with a registered office and publishing open and transparent declaration of your aims in a detailed manifesto so people can decide for themselves whether they want to join you.

      As for your repeated description of me being an “anti-white bigot” just because I support equal rights for everyone, that’s just your personal opinion. The fact you keep typing it over and over doesn’t make it truer and truer. I am not an anti-white bigot, I am white myself as are my immediate family. We all have complete freedom to do as we please. See? I can type type the same rebuttal over and over too. You don’t know me personally at all.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Fully of name calling, sneering invective, with zero rebuttal or adducing of any plausible evidence.”

      I’ve rebutted your illogical, contradictory and evasive nonsense all up and down this thread, as any reader can readily determine for himself. You’ve desperately scurried around for cover, shifting to the next position as the prior one has been demolished. The whole there is no “white race” but there is a “Caucasian race” thing was a classic! LOL! In all my arguments with anti-whites, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone desperate enough to try that route! Talk about painting yourself into a corner.

      You then fall back upon demanding “links,” as if I’m making wild claims of fact. Please, tell me what claim of fact – not difference of opinion or values – that I’ve made that a reasonably intelligent and informed person would be ignorant of? Problem for you: you can’t do that without appearing even more foolish and ignorant than you already have, which is of course why you won’t get specific. But please, tell me what basic facts you are ignorant of that you are in such desperate need of “links.”

      As for name calling, who here trotted out the “supremacist” smear? You. As far as I can tell, this site isn’t about supremacy, but rather self-determination. You intentionally try to misrepresent that through smears. In short: you’re a liar. That’s not “name calling,” it’s simply identifying you for what you are based on a trait that you’ve shown you possess. You don’t seek to honestly debate the other guy, but misrepresent him.

      And you ARE an anti-white bigot that justifies white genocide. Obviously, that’s my opinion, but the evidence for it is all over this thread. The conclusion that I’ve drawn is based on that evidence, you’re own writing. Others can draw their own conclusions, but I consider it a fair description. Gonna demand a link for my opinion too?

      Derek: “You don’t win the hearts and minds with this sort of language and this sort of approach.”

      You really don’t get it? I’m not trying to convert you, Derek. None of my writing is for your benefit. You’re simply an exhibition in textbook anti-white dishonesty. You had a role to play, and you played it. Right now my target market is focused upon particularly honest, idealistic and decent people. Those are people worth reaching. You don’t qualify. You’ve been like a squid squirting ink throughout this thread, and I certainly don’t respect that.

      Grow up, try to develop a sense of basic honesty, deep six the obvious nonsense, and you’ll find that I and most other white nationalists can be quite civil, even where we disagree. As I’ve said before, there are other anti-whites posting on this board, and our sparring sessions generally remain reasonable. But act like an idiot, don’t be shocked when you’re treated like one. Not that you’ve been treated particularly badly. It’s truly amazing to hear you whining over being called a bigot, when your kind has been throwing that little jewel at us for decades, constantly. You accuse others of doing what you are far guiltier of.

    • Repeating your lie with ever mounting vehemency doesn’t make it truer and truer. You are at no risk of “extermination”. Whether you think so or not, there is a Human Race, to which we all belong and this is constructed of billions of racial strands and DNA molecules of staggering complexity.

      You are perfectly free to take yourself off somewhere and practice your simplistic, isolationist creed, but leave me out of it. I want to, and do, live in the real world which for me is an exciting and interesting place incorporating the contributions of people from all parts of the world. You don’t speak for me, nor for anyone known to me.

    • Trainspotter

      The term that I have used is genocide. The reasons for the use of this term has been explained to you. But what do you do? Put “extermination” in quotes, implying that I used a term that I did not. This is reflective of your basic dishonesty, attempting to distort and misrepresent rather than deal with the issue at hand. Again, you’re like a squid squirting ink.

      Derek: “You don’t speak for me, nor for anyone known to me.”

      I never claimed to. I only speak against you, and your support of white genocide. Basic human decency compels that.

    • You’re right about my use of inverted commas in “extermination” instead of “genocide”. However one is synonymous with the other. You can find this in the online dictionary:

      gen·o·cide
      [jen-uh-sahyd] Show IPA
      noun
      the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

      That doesn’t make me “dishonest” because it doesn’t “misrepresent” your views.

      I don’t support white genocide yet you keep saying I do. It is you who are misrepresenting me.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “However one is synonymous with the other.”

      You falsely quoted me as having used the term “extermination.” There is a reason that you did that, and it was of course a dishonest one. You then compound the dishonesty by denying any difference in meaning or implication, when any reasonable reader understands what you were trying to pull. Again, you’re like a squid squirting ink.

      And you do indeed support white genocide. The entire thrust of your posts has been to deny whites their own identity. You will squirm and wiggle around in a desperate attempt to do this, to the point of absurdity. One minute you’re denying that there is any such thing as the “white race,” the next minute you denounce white slavers (suddenly we exist when it is time to condemn us), then feeling trapped you proclaim that there is indeed a “Caucasian race,” but below you imply that the difference between whites and non-whites is simply that the latter have “suntans.” You just can’t imagine why we don’t want to be overwhelmed and assimilated by people with “suntans.” LOL!

      Wow. Just wow.

      Before the internet, the anti-whites were able to keep people like you away from the microphones. Not anymore! Now it’s far easier for normal whites to see you for the dishonest, anti-white lunatics that your kind really are.

      A standard practice in justifying the genocide of a people is denying them an identity, denying that they even exist in the first place. These days, anti-whites such as yourself only use this technique against whites as a whole, or particular white ethnic groups. Not against non-whites, whether they be Japanese, Tibetans, or Apaches. Everything that you have said, ridiculous as it is, could be leveled against non-white nations too – but for some odd reason your kind doesn’t do that. Coincidence, I’m sure.

      Non-whites are allowed an identity, and the ability to defend and promote that identity. Whites aren’t, according to you. We only exist when it is time to condemn us, or pass laws favoring non-whites over us, or celebrate our dwindling demographic prospects. You’re such a good person, Derek. So very, very good.

    • Anyone can read up the thread and trace the argument. I do not support the genocide of myself, nor of anyone else. You keep stating, falsely that I do, and after having told this lie over and over, you falsely accuse me of mendacity.

      I cannot determine “white identity”, because there isn’t one. If there were then they would all be in one political party, go to one type of school, and behave in a manner distinct from the other racial groups. There is no “white race”, but there is a group known as Caucasians with shared attributes of appearance. That’s pretty much where it ends.

      Not all white people think the same way as you, but you are free to interbreed to your heart’s content with those who do want to sign up to your vision of Utopia. No-one is telling you not to marry and make babies with another white person. No-one. You can mate with whomever you want.

      Some people have different skill colour to you. Those with darker hues come from countries with hot climates, and the pigment in their skin darkens as a result of increased melanin, hence my flippant use of the word “suntan”. This melanin doesn’t materially alter their intelligence, moral rectitude nor any human attribute other than how they look. Your worth is determined by what you do, not what you are.

      I believe racism is wrong. You haven’t convince me it’s right. Nor have you convinced me you don’t have the power to live as you please and mate with whom you please.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “I cannot determine “white identity”, because there isn’t one.”

      Except when it is time to condemn whites, pass laws to discriminate against them, and celebrate their demographic decline.

      Derek: “If there were then they would all be in one political party, go to one type of school, and behave in a manner distinct from the other racial groups.”

      This is just moronically stupid. There is such a thing as Koreans, and a Korean identity to go with it. That doesn’t mean they all have to belong to the same political party, or behave in any particular way that suits you. They don’t require your permission or your approval.

      Same with white Americans, or any other ethnic group, or a broader conception of Europeans as kindred peoples. We define these things for ourselves, and your input is not required. Tribes form as they form, always have and always will. Too bad that you are at odds with this normal and natural process.

      Derek: “I believe racism is wrong. You haven’t convince me it’s right. Nor have you convinced me you don’t have the power to live as you please and mate with whom you please.”

      I’m not here to convince you. I’m here to show what you are: a hate filled, anti-white bigot and a justifier of white genocide.

    • It was you said I wanted to “deny whites their own identity”. You are therefore ascribing to whites a homogeneous identity based on race. Clearly this ‘identity’ isn’t just skin colour, so if it’s absurd, then the absurdity started when you claimed people with pale skin have an identity that gives them special status.

      Describe what you consider to be the attributes of a “white identity” deserving of special status and protection, as distinct from, say, an Asian identity.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Describe what you consider to be the attributes of a “white identity” deserving of special status and protection, as distinct from, say, an Asian identity”

      It’s up to Asians if they identify with a broader Asian identity. It’s none of my business. However, I don’t have any problems distinguishing ethnic Norwegians from ethnic Chinese, either racially or culturally. I understand that that the Chinese have a culture, a heritage, and an identity. They are quite aware that Beijing is not a Norwegian city, racially or culturally. But you can’t figure this out? You’re confused?

      If you are unable to so discern, if when you are in China, you believe that you are in Norway, and when in Norway you believe that you are in China…then I’d suggest that you get the medical help that you apparently need.

      As to a broader European identity, yes, I consider that to be a legitimate concept. There also appears to be a broader Arab identity though, as with whites, there are numerous religious and ethnic differences within the broader Arab umbrella. There also appears to be something of a broader Indian (feathers, not dots) identity, though obviously it too includes numerous tribes and subcultures.

      All of this is really news to you? You really didn’t know any of this?

      No, I’m not going to attempt to list the characteristics that distinguish European civilization from, let’s say, a broader Arab civilization, or a broader Native American culture. If you are so far gone that you don’t understand what I’m referencing, nothing I post will help anyway.

      Identity is a complex thing, and you are simply too short for this ride. Christ, you still haven’t realized that immigrants can actually vote, and can alter election results! LOL! I’d say you’re more at a “See Spot Run” level than handling anything nuanced or genuinely difficult.

    • So what if immigrants can vote? You never proved that Obama shipped them in for that purpose, which is your claim.

      If you cannot in broad general terms identify your “white identity” as a list of defining attributes then what is the point of it if you cannot even describe it?

      It’s racism, nothing else.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “You never proved that Obama shipped them in for that purpose, which is your claim.”

      Liar. I never claimed that.

      Derek: “If you cannot in broad general terms identify your “white identity” as a list of defining attributes then what is the point of it if you cannot even describe it.”

      I have in broad terms: European civilization, and in my case, more particularly Anglo-Celt. Blood, appearance, folkways, customs, music, language, literature, science, philosophy, etc. Everything that goes into a culture and a civilization – including the racial type that carried it forward.

      But again, you really can’t differentiate white Southerners from the Chinese? You can’t differentiate Chinese from Bantus?

      If you can’t, then I suggest that you seek the medical help that you clearly need. You’re not well.

    • No lie, your words: “one party to the controversy has shipped in voters from other countries to vote on its side ” It’s clear you’re referring to Obama, the president alluded to in your other comments. Otherwise, are you accusing Romney?

      In terms of your “white identity”, you’re assuming ” folkways, customs, music, language, literature, science, philosophy,” are shared in common with all whites. They are not. Music for example is broken up into very many subclasses, styles etc, and is practised no less by Chinese than by Europeans. Yes, there are local traditions, unique to China, but these don’t appear spontaneously in Chinese born in the USA. If they were race based, then US born Chinese would choose to play the Er-Hu, and not the European violin.

      Local traditions are circumscribed by geography not by racial DNA. A person of any race born into a different geographical demographic would adopt those of its attributes that appealed to him. There is no reason why an African, Arab or Asian cannot be a philosopher, poet, artist, musician, speak in English, or any other language he or she chooses. Each nation has its own traditions, but they are not unique to the occupying races.

      You are not better than all these other races, merely because your parents had pale skin.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “No lie, your words: “one party to the controversy has shipped in voters from other countries to vote on its side ” It’s clear you’re referring to Obama, the president alluded to in your other comments. Otherwise, are you accusing Romney?”

      Those were NOT my words, they were KO’s words. And it is clear, to a normal non-liar (therefore, excluding you), that he was referencing the System supported mass immigration of non-whites that has taken place over decades, not just Obama versus Romney. You are either a liar or an utter idiot. I think a mixture of both.

      Derek: “If they were race based, then US born Chinese would choose to play the Er-Hu, and not the European violin.”

      LOL! You really are a major Asperger’s case. Nobody is claiming that different races can’t learn different languages, or play instruments developed by another people. That doesn’t make an ethnic Chinese an ethnic Swede, or the other way around. Again, you attempt to deny whites an identity because you are justifying their genocide. You pose as anti-racist, what you are is anti-white. Very sick stuff.

      Derek: “You are not better than all these other races, merely because your parents had pale skin.”

      This isn’t about who is “better.” This is about those who seek self-determination on the one hand, and those like you who seek to justify the genocide of whites.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “No lie, your words…”

      Wrong, they were not my words. They were KO’s words. Not only are you being dishonest in falsely attributing the words to me, you are also being dishonest by misrepresenting what he meant: he was clearly referencing the decades long and System approved mass immigration of non-whites, not any particular political leader. What is going on is far bigger than any particular politician. If KO wants to correct this, so be it, but your representation is unreasonable to the point of being ludicrous.

      An earlier response of mine has apparently gotten tied up in moderation, but suffice it to say that nothing has changed, Derek: you’re just a squid squirting ink. Distortion, misrepresentation, and at times brazen dishonesty. You’re justifying white genocide, no matter how you squirm and attempt to evade that reality.

    • Name the non-white races that are of concern to you, give their actual numbers, the ports they’re arriving at and a decade by decade before and after summary of the racial demographic distribution. Then state specifically how they are adversely affecting you. What is it you feel you can’t do any more because these immigrants have been let into the country?

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Name the non-white races that are of concern to you, give their actual numbers, the ports they’re arriving at and a decade by decade before and after summary of the racial demographic distribution.”

      LOL! Would you also like me to prove that the sky is blue, and that 2+2=4?

      You are not here to make silly demands, Derek. Nobody cares what you demand. I doubt anyone here is prepared to be your research monkey. You’re just here as Exhibit A in anti-white kookery. It is your job to relieve yourself, if at all possible, of the astonishing level of ignorance that you demonstrate.

      Why do you post if, astonishingly, you don’t even know what a non-white immigrant is? It’s absurd.

      But given that you post here, presumably you have access to the broader internet. Given that you claim to work at a university, presumably you also have access to the university library (do they give janitors a card?). Given access to those resources alone, how is it possible that you know so little of what is happening in the world around you? How is it that you have managed to achieve such an astonishing level of ignorance? In an insane sort of way, I guess it’s an accomplishment of sorts.

      Here’s a hint, loon: learn about something before debating it. Unless you have some sort of mental infirmity or defect, which quite frankly I’ve come to suspect, this should be possible even for someone of, shall we say, limited mental acumen.

    • You make claim after claim without a scintilla of proof and then tell ME to go find your proof. If you make the claims, then it’s up to you to adduce proof of your claims, not for me to do your research for you.

      Your use of inflammatory language and the complete absence of even ONE piece of externally sourced evidence alongside your reliance on hysterical generalisation are making this argument circuitous, childish and pointless.

      Nothing is to be gained by continuing this. I am going to make this my last post. You’ll get nowhere with your racist ideology.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “You make claim after claim without a scintilla of proof and then tell ME to go find your proof. If you make the claims, then it’s up to you to adduce proof of your claims, not for me to do your research for you.”

      More squid squirting and dishonesty. The primary fact that I rely upon for my argument is that non-white populations are growing within white homelands. This is not in dispute by ANYONE. That this is happening is entirely noncontroversial, a clear and well established fact. Other than the mentally disabled, I doubt anyone is unaware of this demographic transformation. Yet you demand that I “prove” it to you. LOL! You’re not competent to look up census data? Are you kidding me?

      In contrast, you make outrageous and self-serving claims, while offering no proof. Your claim that homosexual relationships are, on average, more stable than heterosexual relationships is pretty astonishing, and is not at all widely accepted as true. Yet you offer no proof at all.

      You’re a joke.

      As I’ve said, it just goes to your basic dishonesty: You demand links to prove that 2+2=4, yet you make the most outrageous of claims with no supporting evidence at all.

  • KO

    Derek,
    England is gone — the England of Englishmen and its historical culture and traditions. It is now a no-solidarity, cultureless, multi-racial province of the EUSSR. You pretend to revel in a brave new world of opportunity, but from our point of view, you are cheering on a totalitarian, secular, servile pseudo-democracy.

    America is going in the same direction. The contributors here are a little colony of resistance. In my view, the essence is the culture of self-government. Racial and economic issues are only pieces of that. The culture of self-government is what is disappearing from your brave new world. “God, liberty, and property” might have been the slogan of the commonwealthsmen whose spiritual and intellectual descendants founded this country and its local, state and federal traditions.

    Of course, you can have secular totalitarian pseudo-democracy by consent of the people. Oh, that’s what we have, for now. But in our traditional American culture, we reject it. We always will until we are exterminated by your totalitarian state, where coercion is freedom, culturelessness is vibrancy, and poverty is wealth.

    We the people need to take back our government, including the government-controlled monopolies in media and education. When we have done that, we will have more opportunity to exercise our culture of self-government in our living, social, political, and economic arrangements–opportunity to live in a manner expressive of our traditional culture. It doesn’t mean returning to the 19th century or earlier. It means leaving behind the 20th century managerial state, in which all human relations are regulated by progressive experts–whether liberal, Nazi, Fascist, or Communist hardly matters–and traditional cultures are extirpated except possibly for superficial decorative features.

    Henry Adams said that the classic American was a “conservative Christian anarchist.” Much truth to that.

    • In the UK, I have compete freedom to do whatever I like, within the law and within reason, and so do you.

      What is it you want to do that you feel you cannot do?

    • Spelunker

      “In the UK, I have compete freedom to do whatever I like, within the law and within reason, and so do you.

      What is it you want to do that you feel you cannot do?”

      Clearly they are bein oppressed. They can’t even type their thoughts on message boards and blog comment sections. Really, it’s insane. I’m sure that the Gestapo is closing in on them as we speak. It’s terrible I tell you, so oppressed. I hear they even have to wear seat belts when they drive.

    • What evidence do you have of this? I haven’t had any of my comments blocked, and I live here.

      What is it you want to type that you think would be blocked?

    • KO

      Some of this may be speculation, but I hope you will indulge me.

      In the UK, you can’t vote to withdraw from the EU, because the political class doesn’t want to submit the question to a vote.

      You can’t own a handgun, let alone carry one to defend yourself.

      You can’t make money without paying confiscatory taxes to support a bloated welfare state.

      You can’t buy gasoline without paying confiscatory taxes to support a bloated welfare state.

      If you rent property, you can’t choose not to rent to people with whose ethnicity or sexual mores you do not wish to be associated. Likewise if you run a restaurant or other kinds of businesses serving the public.

      You can’t teach in school that sodomy is sinful.

      You can’t agree with your neighbors to maintain the racial and cultural composition of your neighborhood by not selling property to unwanted groups.

      You can’t keep out undesirable immigrants.

      You can’t deport undesirable immigrants.

      If you run a business, you’re not allowed to define the community you wish to serve in either your hiring or your sales of goods and services.

      This may be speculative, but you can’t publicly advocate the reeestablishment of the UK as a predominantly white Christian country without suffering legal harassment, loss of employment, public and private ostracism, possibly personal violence, and possibly criminal prosecution.

      Much of this list applies to the U.S. too.

      In short, the prohibition on discrimination is an engine for the destruction of historically Christian white communities, in Britain as in the U.S., in Germany as in France.

      You may be happy to see these communities destroyed, or as you might say, to see them “evolve,” but you can’t pretend they are not “going away.”

      As Walt Whitman sang of the American Indians, “See, they melt! They depart!” That is the suicidal liberal progressive attitude towards the disappearance of the white Christian nations of Europe and their progeny.

    • I don’t want a handgun, nor do I want someone with whom I have a disagreement to have one either.
      Taxes are an omnipresent factor in any system of government. Yes the welfare tax is bloated, but white supremacy won’t fix that.
      If you’re in the business of renting, you can choose your tenants, but you may not render gay or black people homeless, which would clearly be the case if in a reductio ad absurdum, everyone shared your view.
      “Sodomy” is a sexual practice that is engaged in far more by heterosexuals than by gays, and not at all by lesbians. It is not up to a teacher to talk about “sin” to students. Religion is the private prerogative of families to pass on to their offspring as they see fit. Not all religions teach that gays being relationships with other gays are ‘sinning’ when they do.
      You can sell to whomever you like, but not on the basis of skin colour. Why should a black person be unable to buy a house?
      Of course you can keep out undesirable immigrants. Governments aren’t always successful at this, but that doesn’t mean it’s their policy to bring in undesirable immigrants. I never once saw that in any political manifesto, or public pronouncement.
      If you’re in business, you are selling to the public. Why should a gay couple wanting a wedding cake have to drive to the other side of town just because of your prejudice?
      The UK is a ‘Christian country’, only in the sense that our head of state, Queen Elizabeth II is also through accident of birth, head of the Church of England. We are not a theocracy. The term ‘Christian’ includes over 41,000 different denominations with a vast array of views for and against many issues such as birth control, women’s ordination, divorce and homosexuality.
      You make out that white people are superior to all other people, but “white” itself includes some of the worst criminals and sociopathic murderers on the planet. Being white isn’t what makes you better, it is your generosity, kindness, hard work, reliability, honesty, dedication, loyalty that make you the better person, and if you have all these qualities, then it’s unlikely you’ll be wanting to set yourself up on this superiority kick of being better than all other races because both your parents happened to have pale skin. I can’t believe you don’t see how absurd this is.

    • KO

      You’re totally satisfied with a system of society and government which I and many others loathe. It doesn’t feel like prison to you, so it isn’t, except perhaps insofar as it is in reality opposed to who you really are as a human being. I can’t believe that you can’t see that preserving historic white nations and cultures isn’t about supremacy, but about survival. You are saying that various forms of human society — those embodied in historic white Christian European communities — have no right to survive. You can say that, but please don’t pretend that doesn’t make you an enemy and a threat to those you are willing to see eliminated.

      I would like to see totalitarian secular progressive servile pseudo-democracy dismantled. That makes me its enemy. But I would like to persuade those who see no alternative to it that they have nothing to lose but their chains.

    • You can lobby politicians or enter politics yourself to bring society more to your liking. If you’re unable to persuade the majority, then there other places you can live in that may more closely parallel your view of yourself being superior to people with different coloured skin to yourself.

      I am a gay man enjoying complete equality in the UK and Scotland, and so I would never subscribe to a society advocated by you where I would once again be in chains. I would also not wish to disown my colleagues and close friends from different races. I’ve never shunned anyone because they have a suntan. That makes no sense to me at all.

    • Leslie H. Higgins

      There IS no country specifically constituted as a homeland for Whites, of any ethnicity, intent on actively preserving them as predominant. One might argue Russia and other East European countries are making headway for their peoples, but certainly there is no succor for Anglo-Americans intent on self-preservation from the ongoing tide of non-Whites. Until Harold Covington’s Northwest American Republic or a free Dixie comes to be, God willing, we must do what we can where we live now.

      And by the way, as sodomite culture is inherently degenerate, and no believing Christian or other man of virtue would want their children (or themselves, for the sake of their eyes), the only freedom I’d recognize as worth anything would include freedom FROM public homosexuality such as you cherish.

      Human flourishing is impossible in a cesspool where Lady Gaga or any other degenerate pop star plays on anything but rogue shortwave radio or heavily encrypted files as hard to locate as CP. That is the kind of environment I want to live in, the kind every human being “regardless of creed or color” has a right to, and the only kind worth striving for.

      Otherwise, as Matthew Heimbach said so eloquently, “F*ck your freedom!”

    • Homosexuality is not a ‘lifestyle’ like living near the beach or fashionable new pair of shoes. The mere fact you think that shows you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. There isn’t any degeneracy among heterosexuals? What planet are you living on?

      I don’t live in a cesspool, I live in Edinburgh, Scotland and work at the university. It is not a “cess pool”. I know large numbers of gay people. Not one of us fits your sneering and contemptuous portrayal of degenerates or cesspool. Most are in long term relationships, some as long as 40 years, while you heterosexuals are busy dismantling your “marriages” at 1 in every 2.

      It’s not me you need to talk into not procreating outside my white racial group, it’s your white heterosexual mates you need to arrange the white only marriages for. What chance do you think you’ll have convincing them to marry only a person you approve of racially?

      For interest’s sake, please list the races you approve of in your white only country. Obviously not Jews, or Spaniards, or Italians, or Egyptians who are all dark skinned.

  • KO

    In short, your culture is dominating mine by force and fraud, as well as by bribery, blackmail, and persuasion. Pardon me if mine fights back and seeks to dominate yours.

    • All generalisations. Specifics please, with external citations. Name the races who are damaging your life, the numbers involved, where they are and what it is you feel you can’t do any more because of them.

  • KO

    Why should anything be decided by majority vote if one party to the controversy has shipped in voters from other countries to vote on its side and has turned a blind eye to electoral fraud? You can’t pervert the system of self-government and then rely on its outcomes as if they meant something. When rule of law diverges too far from the people’s culture, law loses its legitimacy and gives way to war. It is then only tolerated for tactical and strategic purposes (or out of sheer cowardice), not recognized as truly binding.

    When our Congress voted to abolish the historic white Christian identity of the United States by the 1965 Immigration Act, it became subject to popular veto in whatever form that would take.

    • Trainspotter

      KO: “Why should anything be decided by majority vote if one party to the controversy has shipped in voters from other countries to vote on its side and has turned a blind eye to electoral fraud?”

      This is correct. The anti-whites have stuffed the demographic ballot box. The mask is slipping on this, and more and more of them openly gloat that this is transforming the democratic process, rendering traditionalist whites a hopeless and powerless minority. The anti-whites don’t persuade, they swamp. Then destroy the leadership of any meaningful opposition, attacking them personally and professionally, thus making them toxic to would be supporters.

      Further, even when a majority is able to successfully assert itself in a traditional direction (increasingly rare), the courts simply overturn the results. We’ve seen this on everything from immigration to gay marriage. And in the event that the courts don’t act, the corporate oligarchy that owns the political process will simply buy the votes that it needs, and it has a unified corporate media that will saturate the land with its message.

      Our “representative” government regularly acts against the wishes of the citizenry. To pretend otherwise is absurd. We live under a government of, by and for the oligarchy.

      In an honest world, the System’s slogan would be: “The Fix Is In”

      But to hear Derek tell it, you’d think our “democracy” is as fair as an election held down at the local Ruritan Club. Utterly, utterly laughable. He enjoys “equal rights” for one reason and one reason only: he is part of a group that the oligarchy employs to break down traditional values and standards. He is a useful idiot, with an emphasis on idiot. The moment his kind fail to serve the interests of the System, he will be tossed away and spat upon. He is far too dense to grasp this.

    • Please provide verifiable evidence that ANY political party “shipped in” voters in numbers of sufficient electoral significance to change the result of an election, and if so, why the other side didn’t simply do exactly the same and thus counterbalance.

      It’s not the “majority” that determines your civil rights. If they did, then African Americans would have no rights, and neither would gays, nor would minority religions. Human rights are universal to every single human being on this planet, even you, and are as laid down by the International Declaration on Human Rights by the United Nations, to which all member countries are signatory. If you want the USA to disavow others rights, while keeping your rights, then you will have to convince the USA to repudiate the UN or the UN to declare that whites are superior to all other races. This would require the agreement of all these other races, since they too are members of the UN.

      As for “Democracy”, you are confusing this with Tyranny of the Majority. An elected government governs for ALL the people, not just the majority who elected them.

    • KO

      He doesn’t even seem to know that the liberal elite have already decided that the Islam card trumps the gay card. Muslims can murder gays based on their cultural and religious and legal traditions and the open door to Muslims stays open, because they are an even more corrosive and thus more valuable solvent to Western Christendom.

    • The “Islam card”? There is no such thing, if anything, there is strong feeling against the extreme aspects of Islam, and there is zero chance these will be allowed to take hold in the UK.

      It’s true that Islam teaches I should be stoned to death, and so does the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, which is the Torah of the Jewish religion. All three religions are Abrahamic religions and the testaments of all three carry death penalties, even for disobedient children or people who work on the Sabbath.

      In the UK, Muslim youths assaulting gays are arrested and prosecuted under British law, but so are non-Muslims. Anyone who assaults another person would be arrested in the West, and that includes the USA.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Please provide verifiable evidence that ANY political party “shipped in” voters in numbers of sufficient electoral significance to change the result of an election, and if so, why the other side didn’t simply do exactly the same and thus counterbalance.”

      Your ignorance is simply astonishing. Obama for example, could not have won election without the demographic transformation of this country through immigration. He lost the white vote by a solid majority, and would have been absolutely trounced if this country had the demographics of 1965, or even 1985. A reasonably informed man would already know these things, but if you are truly that ignorant, all of the above information is easily verifiable. Get to it, Slow One. Chop chop. But why do you engage in debates, and feel free to make claims, about subjects of which you obviously know nothing? You have either been living under a rock for the last 40 years, or you’re dumb as a box of rocks. Take your pick.

      Democrats here are crowing about this transformation, and are eager for more. California, as just one of many examples, has been utterly transformed due to immigration, and what was once a comfortably Republican state has turned into a solid Democrat one. You really haven’t heard of any of this, yet feel competent to argue the point? Your ignorance is absolutely breathtaking.

      As to why the “other side” doesn’t counterbalance, it’s because there is no “other side” in a meaningful sense. There is a System, and a de facto ruling oligarchy, and both parties are funded largely by the same interests. Democrats want more Democrat voters, Republicans want cheap labor to satisfy their corporate donors. Both are fine with the demographic swamping, regardless of what the normal citizen thinks.

      As whites are intentionally reduced to minority status by the System that you defend, these trends will only strengthen. I realize you have absolutely no idea what I’m talking about. LOL!

      Derek: “It’s not the “majority” that determines your civil rights.”

      No joke, Sherlock. Glad you figured that one out, at least.

      Derek: “An elected government governs for ALL the people, not just the majority who elected them.”

      Uh huh, I’m sure that’s what your middle school textbook said. Adults free of aspergers realize it’s a little more complicated than that.

    • Immigration is strictly controlled in the US, and is quite distinct from your loaded term “shipping in”. What evidence can you offer (actual numbers, ports arrived at, and dates of arrival please) that Obama was able to “ship in” people for the purpose of ensuring his election to the White House.

      As for “losing the white vote”, kindly check out this article:
      w w w .washingtonpost. com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/11/08/president-obama-and-the-white-vote-no-problem/

      (delete spaces to open link)

    • Trainspotter

      Dude, you are astonishing. You post an article…that supports my point?! LOL! O.K. I agree with the article that you posted, which confirms the point that Obama didn’t need to win the white vote. Which he didn’t. Which I and other reasonably informed people already knew, but apparently was a link-worthy event for you.

      But seriously, dude. Do you actually imagine that scores of millions of Hispanics, Asians, and other non-white immigrants don’t matter electorally? That magically they don’t vote, and therefore don’t alter elections? Really, you believe that?

      Anyway, here is a quote from your own linked article:

      “And, Obama’s showing among white voters mattered less than did Mondale’s or Carter’s because the white vote accounted for significantly less of the overall electorate in 2012 than it did in either 1984 or 1980. In fact, the white vote as a percentage of the overall electorate has declined in every election since 1992.”

      Please feel free to post more links that defeat your own argument! Incidentally, there are far better articles out there that speak to the point far more effectively. Have at it, boy.

      Here is the money shot from one, quoted in an article written by Juan Williams and posted at The Hill:

      “Had it been held in 1988, when George H.W. Bush carried whites by the same 20-point margin that Romney won in 2012, it would have produced an Electoral College landslide of 426 –to-111 for the Republican candidate. Instead, it resulted in an Electoral College drubbing of 332-to-206. In short, whites mustered 220 fewer Electoral College votes’ worth of clout in 2012 than in 1988. Aha.”

      Getting it now, Lil Derek? I’ll say it again: you really shouldn’t engage in arguments that you know nothing about. It’s bad form.

    • You have posted no evidence nor is there any in the article I posted, to support your contention that Obama “shipped in” voters to rig the election.

      You are not superior to other races, there is no defining attribute of a “white race” to legitimate creating a separate country.

      You are free to do all the things you claim you are not free to do. Maybe you should get out from behind your computer. I have better things to do than argue day and night with a shocking racist.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “You have posted no evidence nor is there any in the article I posted, to support your contention that Obama “shipped in” voters to rig the election.”

      Firstly, you keep attributing to me the quote “shipped in.” To my recollection, I didn’t use that phrase. Not that basic honesty seems to concern you, but still, I’d prefer that you not falsely quote me. It’s yet more bad form from you.

      In any event, the person who did use that term was obviously (to normal people, anyway) not making the sort of childish claim that you imply, but was rather referencing the broader System approved mass immigration of recent decades. Reasonable people would understand his meaning, yet of course you choose to distort and misrepresent.

      So is it lying on your part, severe ignorance, or mere lack of brainpower? I have to assume dishonesty predominates, because it’s hard to believe that anyone posting here could be quite as stupid as you come across.

    • You post anonymously under the pseudonym “Trainspotter”. and you have no photo of yourself, and your URL posts recursively to this website. This cowardice makes it difficult to take you seriously.

      There is no “white identity”. The white “race” you seek to unite under a single banner doesn’t exist as such. The Islamist Chechnyans, the Nazis are all white. I am white. I do not share the views of other people merely because they are white too. My friends include all kinds of people. I don’t shut people out because their parents have dark skin.

      You will get nowhere basing your ideology on the perceived ‘virtue’ of pale skin. As for “self-determination”, there is nothing stopping you from being whatever or whomever you want to be. If you can persuade others to sign up to your racist self-important, then you can set up your own commune legally on real estate you can freely buy. You seek to scapegoat mark skinned races for your failure to get ahead in life, but nothing is stopping you achieving whatever legitimate career goals you may have except your egregious self-pity.

    • corrections to typos: “self-importance” and “dark skinned”

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “You post anonymously under the pseudonym “Trainspotter”. ”

      Yes, while you are so brave. It takes a lot of courage to spout System propaganda. LOL!

      Derek: “you have no photo of yourself, and your URL posts recursively to this website.”

      Wonder what you’re up to. Mmmmmm.

      Derek: “The white “race” you seek to unite under a single banner doesn’t exist as such.”

      Your kind doesn’t seem to have a problem identifying us when it is time to condemn us, lie about us, discriminate against us by force of law, or celebrate our demographic decline. It is only when we seek to defend our interests that we suddenly *don’t exist.” Your position is laughable, but also despicable. Justifying white genocide is a disgusting endeavor.

      Derek: “I do not share the views of other people merely because they are white too.”

      That’s good. I do not consider you part of my community, and have no interest in defending you or advocating for you. I wish to separate from people like you just as much as I wish to separate from non-whites. I don’t want to share any institutions in common with you. Justifying white genocide is more than enough grounds to exclude you. So why worry about it, Derek? I don’t see anybody trying to recruit you. Given your pattern of lie after lie, you’re not exactly prime recruitment material.

      Derek: “You seek to scapegoat mark skinned races for your failure to get ahead in life…”

      Quite the contrary, I find people such as yourself far more revolting, and morally culpable, than people with “suntans.” Traitors are always worse than mere outsiders.

      Derek: “… then you can set up your own commune legally on real estate you can freely buy.”

      Maybe we’ll take your advice Derek. You’re ever so helpful. Nobody before you ever thought of that!!! Brilliant idea!

      But there is a problem: that would still leave us under the same government, and sharing the same institutions, and being subject to the same laws as yourself. In order for our people to survive, I think we need to do a little better than that. Only complete self-determination, and complete political separation from your kind will suffice.

    • Well? Who are you Mr Spotter?

      I have several times invited you to list the things you think you cannot do because you are white and heterosexual. As a gay white man, I should have as even more reason than you to blame people of darker coloured skin if I don’t achieve my career goals, but I don’t. Any failure on my part is my responsibility and mine alone. It’s not the fault of Arabs, Asians, Africans nor others from further subdivisions within the ethnographic taxonomy of races, nor indeed Jews, Buddhists, Hindus or Muslims.

      Scapegoating others, your self pity and lethargy aren’t acceptable responses. Either put up, or shut up.

    • LadyGodiva

      Traitor Derek

      Elsewhere on this thread you asked why you should support White self-determination, which you claim would leave you in chains. If you wish to ally with non-whites in order to advanced your narrow homosexual interests, then you are free to do so.

      Now answer this. Why should normal Whites embrace your worldview, which will leave us extinct?

      I look forward to your reply.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Scapegoating others, your self pity and lethargy aren’t acceptable responses.”

      Wow. Opposing white genocide is “scapegoating.” That’s rich.

    • Specifics please, with external citations. Name the races who are damaging your life, the numbers involved, where they are and what it is you feel you can’t do any more because of them.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Specifics please, with external citations. Name the races who are damaging your life, the numbers involved, where they are and what it is you feel you can’t do any more because of them.”

      LOL! You claim to work at a university, but you are not competent to look up census data yourself? Really? Derek, you are far too short for this ride.

    • When you make a claim, it’s not up to ME to prove it, it’s up to YOU.

      I have posted a closing comment in all the strands to this thread. It’s pointless continuing because it’s full of your hysterical generalisations devoid of even one scintilla of externally sourced evidential proof of anything at all.

      Time to pull the plug and say Goodbye. You can have the last word if you must, and I’m sure you’ll want to, because for you it has been all about childishly “winning” an argument, not a search for the truth.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “When you make a claim, it’s not up to ME to prove it, it’s up to YOU”

      No sane and reasonable person requires that people “prove” that 2+2=4. It’s absurd. The primary fact that I rely upon is the demographic transformation that is occurring within white lands. This is well known to any sane individual, can easily be ascertained by looking at census data, and has received enormous coverage over the years in the press. It is not in dispute.

      I suspect that your silly demands that people prove to you that 2=2=4 is some sort of lame attempt at a power trip, getting others to scurry about and do your bidding. LOL! Not gonna happen, weirdo.

      If you don’t realize that a demographic transformation has and is occurring, if you are not even competent to look at basic census data, then you have no business whatsoever participating in any political discussion, much less this one. You have no business exercising the franchise, or even handling a checkbook.

      Yet you yourself make astonishing claims that you will not back up. Your claim that homosexual relationships are more stable than heterosexual relationships is simply astonishing. You won’t offer proof of your outlandish claim (because it is almost certainly a shameless lie), but demand that others prove to you that 2+2=4. It’s utterly laughable.

      Note to others: People need to be aware of how lying anti-whites operate, and Derek is Exhibit A. As their lies and outrageous claims are exposed, they will often attempt to play games of distraction, as they scurry for cover. Derek’s game, lame as it is, is to demand “proof” of 2+2=4, while providing no proof of his absurd claims. When the opponent refuses to play this ridiculous game, Derek throws up his hands and acts put upon. To honest people out there, don’t play the games of liars. Just expose their lies and dishonesty and let them undermine their own rotten cause.

  • KO

    I should add, when I say whites, I don’t mean any whites, I mean the people that were already here starting with the 17th c. settlements and their descendants. So I’m not talking about race, but about actual people and their families. I wouldn’t agree with exterminating white Americans and replacing them with Russians just because Russians are white. Continuity of the American people requires mainly their reproduction, not their dilution by peoples from abroad, whatever their skin color. However, the continuity of the historic American people is likely to be better preserved with small numbers of people of British and northwestern European descent, not small numbers of other whites, or small numbers of non-whites, not large numbers of anything, and certainly not large numbers of nonwhites which are fueling the current demographic catastrophe.

    I don’t know why this is so difficult for you to grasp. I want my people to live on, not die out and be scattered. Liberals don’t seem to have trouble with that concept when looking at third world countries, or at least they pay lip service to it–in reality, they cannot tolerate diversity if that means opposition to liberal hegemony. For example, liberal Anglicans don’t mind crapping on African Anglicans when the Africans dare to reject liberal orthodoxy.

    • Nothing is stopping you or those who believe as you do from breeding inside your own white stock. Nothing at all.

    • KO

      Spoken like a true imperialist. Don’t you know that demography is based on faith in the group’s prospects for prosperity and survival, and that being inundated with foreigners, who assault natives physically and economically, destroys the communities in which such faith is nurtured? Do you think demography is only about f—–g? It is about faith in the future of the individuals, the community, and the culture. Our culture is under attack. When of the main factors in its favor, however, is that yours is self-destructing as a result of its compulsive overreach.

    • Then list all the things that you think other races of darker complexion are preventing you from achieving.

    • LadyGodiva

      Traitor Derek

      It has been explained to you before. It is not about individual achievement. As difficult as it may be fair a narcissist such as yourself to understand, we are concerned about White group survival. I suspect you know this but are changing the subject purposely to avoid the issue of White genocide.

    • Your haystack of abuse is so bloated it’s hard to find the needle of reason. There is no demographic more privileged on this earth than the white, heterosexual male. You consistently fail to adduce any evidence of extinction of Caucasians, nor loss of your rights other than relegation to mere equality with other human beings, every one of us born without consent to be born.

      It seems you’ve gotten so used to lording it all over minorities, you can’t handle sharing the Earth with other human beings. If you continue to behave like that, then your conceit will be your undoing.

    • LadyGodiva

      Traitor Derek

      Your intellectual dishonesty is truly shocking. You have already admitted (1) that White people exist, and (2) that we we are being destroyed in what you call “the inevitable melting pot.” Now you deny that my people are in danver because you are a liar like all anti-whites. NI am not unwilling to sharee the planet with non- whites. Quite the contrary, it is non-whites who will not tolerate perpetual Whiteness anywhere on Earth.

      I ask you again, why should normal White people embrace a worldview that will lead to our obliteration from the face of the Earth?

    • I never once said “white people don’t exist”. I am white, and I exist. If you’re going to keep telling lies this conversation is over.

      Where is your evidence to back your hysterical contention that my non-white friends are planning to obliterate me “from the face of the Earth”.

    • LadyGodiva

      Traitor Derek

      As I already explained, you have admitted already that Whites have no future because of the “inevitable melting pot”, so why are you now.denying that Whites are threatened with obliteration (i.e. erasure from planet Earth. The only thing I can think of is that you are an abject liar like all anti-whites. When are you going to tell me why normal White people should embrace your world-view which willinevitably result in our wholesale destruction?

    • White isn’t a “pure” race, its an amalgam of all sorts of strands through evolution. You can’t stop people from marrying the person they love. That’s how the human race has gotten along.

      You’re not superior to people with darker skin than you. Your contentions are unproven, fantastical and hysterical.

    • LadyGodiva

      I can see that I’m not going to get an answer to my question as to why, as a normal White person, I should embrace a worldview that leaves my people without a future.

      Goodbye.

    • “Your people”? What conceit. When I go to the opera, I see Caucasians, Negroids, Mongoloids and Australoids there, all enjoying the show, laughing at the funny bits, crying at the sad parts, and going out of the theatre as one, as members of the human race. You’ll have a happier life if you celebrate for what we share, rather than drive a wedge to set peoples apart.

      The only enemy to your goodself, is your goodself. You can make whatever future you like, marry whatever person you like, and make babies. Literally NOTHING is stopping you except your own self-pity and paranoia.

    • LadyGodiva

      You know perfectly well that nothing I do as an individual will makea difference in the course of White Genocide, so it is extremely mendacious of you to continuously refer to individual freedom in an attempt to distract from what you have already admitted is the “inevitable” destruction of my people. When was the last time you called a Jew “conceited” for supporting Jewish nationalism. Don’t bother answering I already know the answer. Never. You only spew hatred at Whites for advocating for our own self-preservation.

      Tell me, do you really think I am stupid/gullible enough to fall for your anti-white double standards. You still haven’t explained why normal White people should embrace a world view that will leave us extinct even as China remains over 90% Han Chinese, Africa remains vittually all black, etc.

    • Get over yourself. Your future begins the day you judge yourself by your own achievements instead of by innate characteristics that you had no part in creating, and stop castigating others for likewise having characteristics that they had no choice in inheriting either. You’re talking as though it’s a Chinese person’s fault they had Chinese parents, and they should be punished for it.

    • LadyGodiva

      You are so absurd. Once again I am sure you have never told any black, Jew, or Hispanic that they should give up their identity for crass hyperindividualism. I have nothing against Chinese people. I hope their civilization endures forever. Nothing I said implies the contrary and you have once again revealed yourself to be an abject liar by suggesting that I am anti-Chinese.

      It is you who object to the existence of Whites and only Whites, demanding that we be destroyed by assimilation with hordes of non-white immigrants. I see you make no such demand for Chinese or Israeli Jews. There is really nothing more to say. You are just anti-white. You have made yourself very clear.

    • Never once have I consented to my own annihilation, nor that of people with pale skin, nor any other shade of skin. Shade of skin to me is irrelevant. For one who accuses me of lying, you’re not setting a good example.

      If you’re so worried about whites dying out, then go make babies.

    • LadyGodiva

      White nationalism is the only hope to save White people from total annihilation. You oppose White nationalism. Therefore, you fully support the total annihilation of Whites

    • Straw man fallacy, alongside all the other logical fallacies that litter your responses, including argumentum ad hominem and reductio ad absurdum..

    • LadyGodiva

      The problem is that you have already admitted that Whites are being destroyed in an “inevitable melting pot” and yet you oppose any measures to save Whites from destruction. Meanwhile, you do not demand other races promote their own destruction. You openly side with non-whites against Whites. That makes you both anti-white and a traitor. That is not an ad hominem but a simple statement of fact. Moreover, you stated that you oppose White nationalism because it is against your narrow self-interest as a homosexual. That makes you a narcissist.

      A real ad hominem is evident in your insistence that White people who oppose their own genocide really are just suffering some sort of low self-esteem issues. That is a classic anti-white tactic: questioning the mental healt of Whiteswho don’t share your conviction that we should be destroyed in an “inevitable melting pot” that for some reason you think is only inevitable for White people.

      Interestingly, you even referred to a potential White community as a breeding farm. You would never call a Sioux reservation a breeding colony for Indians. No you reserve that dehumanizing vitriol for Whites only.

      You said yourself that you would hope that any such community would fail because it is racist, which clearly shows.that the word “racist” just means any attempt at white self-preservation.

      Normal Whites are tired of your lies anti-White.

    • The “melting pot” works both ways. If you marry whites to African Americans or Chinese or Arabs, or Hispanics, you get a mixed race, which dilutes by 50% both racial strands, and produces some truly wondrous human beings.

      This has been going on since time immemorial and you’ll never stop it, because people marry and have children to the person they love. Often, opposites attract, and I don’t mean just opposite genders. Very blond Caucasians are often attracted to very black Negroids, Mongoloids or Australoids.

      When it comes to your so-called “white identity”, a Chinese immigrant in the UK for example, by the third generation has completely absorbed the local culture, speaks English with the same accent, and is Chinese by race only. He may still value his heritage, but he has chosen to become British, and is treated as equal in Britain. Your utopia by contrast, excludes such people because they are not Caucasian by race. Not only is that monstrously unfair on such individuals, it has not moral or genetically sound basis. Nature strives for diversity, no matter how much you might try to eliminate it.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Nature strives for diversity, no matter how much you might try to eliminate it”

      You are opposed to actual diversity, and demand that whites be bred out of existence. Nature, on the other hand, strives for speciation, which is why we have so many variants of species and breeds, across the spectrum of life. Your demands are profoundly anti-nature, and anti-reality. That tends to happen when you are a System toady and water boy.

      Why do you want to destroy this natural process with System enforced integration? If diversity is so grand, why does it have to be forced? Why do you want our natural habitats and ecosystems swamped with invasive species, and then forcibly integrated?

      The answer is simple: you are an anti-white bigot, and an advocate of white genocide. You are deeply, sickeningly, opposed to healthy natural processes, which require healthy ecosystems and habitats.

    • “opposed to actual diversity,” – false, I am in favour of diversity
      “demand that whites be bred out of existence” – again, straw man, and I am white myself, and “demand” no such thing
      “Nature, on the other hand, strives for speciation” – yes, and that is why interbreeding is healthy, whereas incest leads to extinction
      “you are an anti-white bigot, and an advocate of white genocide” – complete and utter lie; the racist is the bigot, and that’s you. You’re making all this up.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: :”false, I am in favour of diversity”

      No, you aren’t. You are in favor of System enforced swamping of white habitats, and forced integration thereafter, with the end result of “melting” whites out of existence.

      Nature, on the other hand, tends toward speciation. Branches break off and establish their own gene pools. In contrast, if your insanity held sway in nature, all creatures would have mixed into a single blob, and differentiation could have never occurred. We’d probably still be primordial slime.

      You are anti-white, and anti-nature.

      Fortunately for everyone and everything, bizarre loons such as yourself weren’t around to destroy natural development, and the authentic differentiation that results from it.

    • Everything you just wrote about me is false. Any hapless individual reading this thread has only to scan back up to see I never said anything to justify your claim that I hate white people and that I want a genocide of this fictional “white race”. These are all products of your febrile imagination.

      Since you’re repeating yourself over and over, if you continue not to adduce any evidence to corroborate your absurd claims, then I will simply copy and paste this answer to each repetition you make.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “…your claim that I hate white people…”

      I don’t recall using the word “hate.” What I have said is that you are anti-white, which you are, and that you advocate white genocide, which you do.

      If a Japanese person favored his own people being “melted” down, and favored a System that was doing that to his people, I’d say he was anti-Japanese and an advocate of Japanese genocide.

    • Since you are repeating yourself now, I will do likewise. I’ve wasted enough time on this.

      Everything you just wrote about me is false. Any hapless individual reading this thread has only to scan back up to see I never said anything to justify your claim that I am anti-white people and that I want a genocide of this fictional “white race”. These are all products of your febrile imagination.

      Since you’re repeating yourself over and over, if you continue not to adduce any evidence to corroborate your absurd claims, then I will simply copy and paste this answer to each repetition you make.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Since you’re repeating yourself over and over, if you continue not to adduce any evidence to corroborate your absurd claims, then I will simply copy and paste this answer to each repetition you make.”

      Anybody can read my prior post and see that it was not repetitive, but rather specifically refuting one of your many lies/misrepresentations. Stop lying (I doubt that’s possible for you), and people will stop refuting your lies.

    • List my alleged lies.
      Provide externally linked evidence to corroborate your claims.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “List my alleged lies.”

      Your lies lace the entire thread, and anyone who cares to catalogue them can examine it. I’ll mention just a very few of many, as I have no intention of rereading all of your drivel: regularly quoting me as making claims that I didn’t, falsely attributing to me language that I did not use, again in quotes. You further claim that I “scapegoat” and am “out for bear” against non-whites, when I have done nothing of the kind. You have repeatedly claimed that my position is one of asserting superiority over non-whites, and that I want special privileges based on my “pale skin.”

      None of this is true. I support self-determination for all peoples, and have been quite explicit about that. This is basically the opposite of what you claim.

      I, on the other hand, have not misrepresented your stated position on race. You may not like how I label it (anti-white and advocating white genocide), but I don’t misrepresent your essential position. You are fine with the demographic swamping of white homelands, and mixing whites out of existence. You’ve been very explicit about that. That’s the issue here, and saying you support it is factually accurate, based on your writings in this thread. In contrast, you lie outright about what I advocate.

      Also, unlike mine, the claims of fact that you make are outrageous, and go against common understanding. For example, not that I’m terribly interested in the homosexual question, but you strongly imply that homosexual relationships are more stable than heterosexual ones. That’s a pretty bold claim, if you are going to stick to it. I don’t particularly care one way or the other, but if that’s your claim, yes, that’s something that requires some support. Naturally, you offer none. That’s just your way: demand links for 2+2=4, but offering no links as you make outrageous claims (that are pretty obviously untrue).

      Unlike yours, none of my claims of fact are particularly controversial, as it is well documented that non-white populations are rapidly growing in white homelands. It’s not my job to provide links for such a well established fact, or to raise up morons to the level of understanding expected in a 12 year old of fair to middling intelligence.

      But please, by all means, feel free to demand links for any particular factual claim that I’ve made. If it’s a reasonable request, if it’s something that is germane to the discussion and is not well established knowledge, I’ll most likely oblige.

      But this request for links can’t be cart blanche, you need to specifically admit your ignorance and lack of learning on a particular point. You will, in effect, have to admit that you are an ignorant, unlearned fool – which is exactly what you are. I don’t think I’ve made a single factual claim that a reasonably informed person of average intelligence would not already know. The demographic transformation that is happening is well known, and that’s the main fact I need for my argument.

      If in fact you work at a university, the mission of which should be the pursuit of truth and not the dissemination of lies and ignorance, it is outrageous. What a grotesque misuse of taxpayer/societal funds. In a healthy society, the only employment that you would have at any university is that of janitor.

      Have standards truly slipped so low? There are 13 year olds that could best you in debate.

    • A lie is deliberating saying something that one knows to be untrue. In no part of this absurd thread have I done any such thing and nor do as a general practice nor on principle.

      There is no single “white race’ with a common ancestry, shared values and common philosophy that is worth localising into a single geographical locale. If there were, then there would not have been two world wars between two essentially Caucasian nations. Nor would there have been a cold war between Caucasian nations. Self determination is absolutely fine by me. Go and do your self determination if you feel you must – nothing is stopping you. You can engage in the political process freely all you want, but you’re wasting your time on this essentially private thread (with a minuscule readership). Go and preach to a larger audience how superior you feel your pale skin makes you to other people.

      This debate is going nowhere, is circuitous and your comments are peppered with inflammatory language, without citing a single piece of externally sourced evidence. I am making this my last response. Any further reply will be ignored. You can of course have the last word, but since people can read up the thread, I’m fine with that, and in any case the readership of this forum is minuscule as it deserves to be.

      You’ll get absolutely nowhere with your racist ideology. Goodbye.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “A lie is deliberating saying something that one knows to be untrue. In no part of this absurd thread have I done any such thing and nor do as a general practice nor on principle.”

      I listed a mere few of your very many lies in the post above. It is obvious and clear that you have lied, repeatedly and intentionally. As an anti-white posing as an anti-racist, it was inevitable that you would eventually become anti-reality as well, thus forcing you to lie and squirt ink as a matter of normal behavior. If you weren’t anti-reality, you wouldn’t have to do that. But you are, and so you do. Your obscene anti-white ideology ultimately makes liars out of all who practice it.

      Derek: “There is no single “white race’ with a common ancestry, shared values and common philosophy that is worth localising into a single geographical locale. If there were, then there would not have been two world wars between two essentially Caucasian nations.”

      Bizarre level of ignorance. All peoples have had their internal conflicts, civil wars, wars between kindred peoples, etc. You really aren’t aware of this? Is this yet more astonishing ignorance on your part, or more dishonesty? I suspect dishonesty.

      Derek: “This debate is going nowhere”

      It accomplished its purpose, from my perspective anyway, though surely not from yours. If this were a private conversation just between you and me, I would have ended it as soon as I realized that you were both ignorant and dishonest. But instead, we now have a record that, so long as it is online, will serve readers as Exhibit A in how fundamentally dishonest, nasty and rotten the anti-white position really is.

  • KO

    “One” of the main factors. I should ask our hosts for an edit function.

  • LadyGodiva

    I just made an iron-clad logical argument. I challenge you to give me one single example of any reductio ad absurdum or ad hominem. There is not a single one throughout my posts.

    • “Iron clad”? You cited not a single shred of external evidence to support your claims, only your private opinion. Your private opinion isn’t transmogrified into fact the moment you’ve typed it out.

      To say I support my own annihilation, and that of all whites merely because I don’t believe there is a white identity that should be hived off to some undefined locale, is the embodiment of Straw Man fallacy. Perhaps you don’t understand Straw Man. An example would be accusing an Education Minister who reduced the budget for libraries in schools in a given year of hating children, and being opposed to education.

      If you don’t understand calling me “traitor”, a “narcissist”, “abject liar” is tantamount to ad hominem, you need to look that up as well.

      As for reduction ad absurdum, your whole thesis is absurd, that people with pale skin are going to be annihilated just because we give equal rights to people who were born with darker skin tones. You can’t stop intermarriage, but you can choose to marry a white person yourself. No-one is stopping you. Go setting up your breeding farms for whites. I can’t say I wish you well, because I don’t support racism.

  • Niemca

    Once Derek claimed there is no such a thing as a white race, I just stopped paying attention to him.

    There is such a thing as a faggot, and I’m calling him out as one. Since I am pro gay rights (which do not include barging into people’s churches), I’d like to state that he shames average gay people who do not hate Whites.

    F-A-G-G-O-T

    • What “peoples” are allowed to be members of your “white race”? Spaniards? Jews? Italians? French? Chileans? Mexicans? Philippinos? Finnish? Norwegians? Bulgarians? Swedes? Iranians? Egyptians?

      Who doesn’t belong?

    • Niemca

      Well Derek I identify as White so are we even having this debate or is it in my, or your, imagination? Next you’ll tell me the notion that I am a woman because I have an X chromosome instead of a Y is an hallucination.

      Am I a woman or a man or do I not have a sex? Isn’t that what Organized Gayness asserts – that nothing is what it seems, there are no males and females, 2+2=5. If Tom decided he was feeling feminine, should he be able to compete in the ‘women’s’ skiing races at the Olympics?

      Who doesn’t belong in women’s bathrooms? Or in their bodies? I mean, after all, since there are no real women they can’t be raped, right?

      I seriously want to know.

    • That is not an answer to my question, namely, which of the several groups i cited are to be excluded from your exclusive white race?

      Your ideas about the agenda of the LGBT movement are pure fantasy.

  • Trainspotter

    Derek: “That is not an answer to my question, namely, which of the several groups i cited are to be excluded from your exclusive white race?”

    You really don’t know what people generally mean by white, and particularly within the context of this thread? You really don’t know that it’s a form of shorthand for the historic peoples of Europe? You never heard of the White Australia policy, or the first naturalization law in the United States which limited citizenship to free white persons, a low which remained on the books until the twentieth century?

    Are you really that ignorant, and yet feel comfortable engaging in a debate, the substance of which you know so little?

    Why don’t you make similar demands of Apaches, Arabs, etc? Tribes form as they Derek, and identity formation is something that is both complex and, unless you claim membership in and are accepted as a member of the group, none of your business. Go demand that the Navajo *prove* to you that the way they define themselves meets your approval. We both know that you would never do that, and that they wouldn’t bother to comply with your silly demand in the unlikely event that you did. It’s none of your business how they define themselves. And it’s none of your business how we define ours, though anyone who is a complete non-idiot could figure it out pretty well for themselves. Perhaps you lack the rudimentary brainpower to do this?

    You’ve already made it clear that you don’t identify with the European peoples, you are happy that they will be “melted” out of existence, and that you are entirely supportive of the System policies to bring this about.

    You are an anti-white bigot and an advocate of white genocide. That makes you a fundamentally immoral person. We see concrete evidence of this in the amazing level of dishonesty that you have exhibited in this thread.

    • Answer the questions. Define what who are the official members of your “white race” – e.g. does that include Hispanics and Jews? Jews are semites, or Arabs, so are not white. Hispanics are not white, and as is the case with any diaspora, or colonial conquests, they interbred with local Mayans for example. Trying to unite an entire culture under the banner of Caucasians is perfectly ridiculous. The culture of Russia, which is largely Caucasian and anti-gay, anti-democracy is ideologically opposed to that of Europe, which is pro-gay and pro-democracy.

      As for the rest of your repetitious post, no matter how many times you say I hate white people, it won’t make it true. I love everybody, and I do not care what colour skin they have. It’s you who are loaded for bear against non-whites. There simply isn’t a single white tribe of people who all think the same way. If whites “disappear” over the coming millennia through natural selection via interbreeding (which they surely will) then so will all the races we interbreed with. Africans won’t stay pure Negroid if whites mate with them, Asians won’t stay pure Mongoloid if whites mate with them, and so on.

      Cultural and technological achievements of the countries of Europe and North America, which are predominantly pale skinned, are admired by other parts of the world. But countries like Japan have risen to world supremacy in manufacture, and India in Information technology. Both India and Japan are excluded from your world vision, as is Chine, because they are not Caucasian, yet they too have their symphony orchestras, their opera companies and their industries and education systems. I see not the slightest imperative to cease communication or inter-marrying with them. If a man and a woman love each other, and want to have children together, then that is their fundamental right to do so, and if you try to stop them, then YOU are interfering with Nature.

      The influence of America is ubiquitous, via the internet, television and fashion to the consternation elders of some cultures in places like India and Tibet, where children are becoming sexualised, talk back to their parents, and are abandoning their native culture.

      Culture isn’t based on race, the race is coincidental. It is based upon geographical confinement, and natural selection. If a person of Mongoloid race is raised in a Europeanised environment for example, they are de facto European. Products like tea and coffee didn’t enter British culture until explorers brought them back from foreign lands, where to this day, they’re still grown, yet now they’re regarded as quintessentially British.

    • Niemca

      Derek Williams says:
      “If a man and a woman love each other, and want to have children together, then that is their fundamental right to do so, and if you try to stop them, then YOU are interfering with Nature.”

      If a woman doesn’t want to mate with a man, then that is her fundamental right to not do so, and if you try to force her, YOU are interfering with Nature. The black on white rape rate in the US ranges from 50-100 instances a day. Please tell your brown sugar daddy, Holder, that black men do not belong in my white woman’s space, thank you, and tell that to your faggot friends who promote this violence against the non-existent ‘invisible’ class of white women who according to you insist on imagining things.

      F-A-G-G-O-T

    • I never once said I wanted anyone to be raped. You’re making ALL this stuff up.

    • Niemca

      Derek, you keep walking into the worst stereotypes of gay men. Even some fag hags will admit that gay men hate women. Add your anti-white racism to that and it explains this compulsion to accuse me as a white woman of being crazy…’imagining’ things. Next you’ll be extolling the virtues of the ‘strong black woman.’

      It’s so predictable. And don’t pretend that the ‘LGTB’ platform isn’t promoting the ‘rights’ of transsexuals ‘M to F’s’ to compete against women in sports, and to change in girls’ and women’s locker rooms, etc. In NYC there are endless nighttime chaperone services for the poor, oppressed social freaks otherwise known as transsexuals, because they’re just such targets for…’straight bigotry.’ How many of them get raped a day in the US?

      God forbid White people started an organization to defend White women, or even men for that matter, from black on white violence.

      White means european. In my lexicon it often specifically denotes anglo celtic people. Why not go be a faggot in Africa, Israel, India, China…

    • Everything you wrote is untrue.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “I never once said I wanted anyone to be raped. You’re making ALL this stuff up.”

      No she wasn’t. You are supporting the policies and conditions that lead to more rapes of white women than there would have otherwise been. This doesn’t seem to trouble you one bit, which is both disturbing and telling.

      You really haven’t heard of the grooming gangs in the U.K., or the rape epidemic in Sweden and even Norway? The targeting of vulnerable white women by non-whites? Surely, you can’t be that ignorant. Or maybe you can. Or maybe it’s just rank dishonesty, or pure evil.

      It should be obvious to even someone of your limited mental acumen that integrating a higher crime group into a lower crime group will, in all likelihood, harm the lower crime group. It’s a fairly straightforward and obvious concept. But I’m sure it won’t be obvious at all. You’ll no doubt have no idea what I’m talking about, and demand “links.” LOL! You need to educate yourself, Lil Derek. You’ve got just as much access to information as anyone else, and only you can alleviate, if only partially, your astonishing level of ignorance. And if it’s not ignorance, it’s even worse.

    • I have heard of all these things. None of them is supported either by the local population who are disgusted and horrified by rape, child grooming and slavery, or by the laws of our land which are rigorously applied. You’re talking as though we are enthusiasts for such crimes. You’re also talking as though these shocking crimes are the norm here. They are big news for precisely the opposite reason, they are a rarity.

      Your use of inflammatory language and the complete absence of even ONE piece of externally sourced evidence alongside your reliance on hysterical generalisation are making this argument circuitous.

      Nothing is to be gained by continuing this. I am going to make this my last post. You’ll get nowhere with your racist ideology.

    • LadyGodiva

      Our right toexist does not depend on any such uniformity traitor.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “You’re talking as though we are enthusiasts for such crimes”

      I suspect that many of you anti-whites are in fact enthusiasts for such crimes against women, and I’ve met people like that (“They deserved it!), but I’m not claiming that here. I’m sticking to what is obvious and provable. It is provable that you support the policies that allow these crimes to happen. It is provable that anti-whites support integrating higher crime non-white populations into lower crime white populations, thus destroying the communities of and getting members of the lower crime population victimized, raped and even murdered.

      More white women get abused, raped and their lives destroyed (or ended) because of the policies that YOU support.

      That’s not a suspicion. That’s reality. As for my opinion on the morality of it all: yes, I think people who knowingly support these policies are morally culpable, and have blood on their hands. That is why basic decency requires us to oppose your kind.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Your use of inflammatory language and the complete absence of even ONE piece of externally sourced evidence alongside your reliance on hysterical generalisation are making this argument circuitous.”

      I posted this upthread, but I think it bears repeating, so here it is again:

      No sane and reasonable person requires that people “prove” that 2+2=4. It’s absurd. The primary fact that I rely upon is the demographic transformation that is occurring within white lands. This is well known to any sane individual, can easily be ascertained by looking at census data, and has received enormous coverage over the years in the press. It is not in dispute.

      I suspect that your silly demands that people prove to you that 2+2=4 is some sort of lame attempt at a power trip, getting others to scurry about and do your bidding. LOL! Not gonna happen, weirdo.

      If you don’t realize that a demographic transformation has and is occurring, if you are not even competent to look at basic census data, then you have no business whatsoever participating in any political discussion, much less this one. You have no business exercising the franchise, or even handling a checkbook.

      Yet you yourself make astonishing claims that you will not back up. Your claim that homosexual relationships are more stable than heterosexual relationships is simply astonishing. You won’t offer proof of your outlandish claim (because it is almost certainly a shameless lie), but demand that others prove to you that 2+2=4. It’s utterly laughable.

      Note to others: People need to be aware of how lying anti-whites operate, and Derek is Exhibit A. As their lies and outrageous claims are exposed, they will often attempt to play games of distraction, as they scurry for cover. Derek’s game, lame as it is, is to demand “proof” of 2+2=4, while providing no proof of his absurd claims. When the opponent refuses to play this ridiculous game, Derek throws up his hands and acts put upon. To honest people out there, don’t play the games of liars. Just expose their lies and dishonesty and let them undermine their own rotten cause.

  • Trainspotter

    Derek: “Jews are semites, or Arabs, so are not white. Hispanics are not white, and as is the case with any diaspora, or colonial conquests, they interbred with local Mayans for example.”

    Wow, Lil Derek actually figured this much out! Good job! I could quibble a bit, but it’s more or less accurate, which is a huge step up for you. I’d give it an accuracy rating of about 80 percent, which is pretty much an 80 percent improvement in your case.

    Derek: “It’s you who are loaded for bear against non-whites.”

    Sigh. The slight improvement in your mental faculties didn’t last long. I once knew a person from Japan pretty well. I liked that person, and I’m pretty sure that person liked me. But this Japanese person didn’t want Japan swamped by non-Japanese. Just because this person liked me personally, didn’t mean that they wanted their people to be swamped or bred out of existence by millions of people like me. Normal people understand this. I’m not surprised that you can’t figure it out.

    I consider the Japanese to be a unique and distinctive people, and it would be a shame if they were mixed out of existence. Does any of this mean that this person was “loaded for bear” against me? Absurd, are most of your claims.

    Derek: “Both India and Japan are excluded from your world vision, as is Chine, because they are not Caucasian, yet they too have their symphony orchestras, their opera companies and their industries and education systems.”

    Not true. Though it’s none of my business, I would hope that India and Japan maintain their distinctiveness. They aren’t asking my advice, however, and do not require my approval. Just as we aren’t asking for your advice, and don’t require your approval.

    Derek: “Products like tea and coffee didn’t enter British culture until explorers brought them back from foreign lands, where to this day, they’re still grown, yet now they’re regarded as quintessentially British.”

    The Japanese are a distinctive people, regardless of whether they use Western technology. So are all other peoples. You’re like a squid squirting ink, desperately trying to cover up the fact that you advocate white genocide.

    • People will do as they want to do. They will marry the people they love, and they will make babies. You can try to stop them, but that will only increase their determination to follow their natural instincts. The ancient and great cultures of India, China, Egypt, France, Italy, Spain etc will survive because people want them to survive. Some of those are Caucasian, some are not, which makes the colour of people’s skin irrelevant. Culture is culture, regardless of how pale your parents’ skin is or was. The art of the diverse countries of Europe will survive if people want it to, but if it fails to then that will be because people have lost interest in it, and that won’t be because of Japan, or India or China or Africa. Demand is consumer driven. I don’t know how you can force people to like the culture you personally like so as to preserve the planet in a particular state that is to your personal taste.

      You’re on a hiding to nothing. Fight to keep orchestras going by all means, but don’t blame it on racial integration if you don’t succeed. Blame it on yourself. Take responsibility for your own failures as well as credit for your successes. Other races are not to blame.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “People will do as they want to do.”

      Then why do you require a System that swamps white homelands with non-whites, uses force of law to integrate the non-whites with the indigenous population, demonizes those who make the case for white continuity and identity, and propagandizes the population with its own agenda?

      Derek: “Other races are not to blame.”

      The non-whites are simply taking advantage of the situation. Their homelands are secure, white homelands are open for colonization. “What’s mine is mine, what is yours is up for grabs.” Eventually, when they have the numbers, history shows that they will assert themselves more forcefully.

      But until then, it is the System that you support that is to blame. Traitors are to blame. Basic decency requires that the System, and its immoral toadies and water boys such as yourself, be opposed.

    • Your so-called “white homeland” is originally American Indian homeland. Their civilisation was practically destroyed through war, dispossession of land and disease, but I don’t see you shedding a tear for them, or the fact that 14% of the African population present in the USA today was originally brought there as slaves under immigration from your ancestors. Now you want apartheid to punish them further. Go and buy a country some place if you want to start over. There are still Greek islands for sale.

      Now, specifically, list the races you claim are swamping the US and asserting dominance. If you’re unhappy with the immigration policy, you’re wasting your time typing on this forum which practically no-one is reading. I’ve never been an advocate for unfettered immigration, such as seriously compromised Fiji, but immigration per se isn’t a bad thing if carefully managed. It is a huge boost to the economy, because you are getting a fully assembled human being with skills and resources, and usually plenty of cash, without having to pay for 20+ years of raising them from childhood, educating and training them to be work ready.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “Your so-called “white homeland” is originally American Indian homeland.”

      Was Scotland originally an American Indian homeland? Why then do you support non-white immigration into Scotland?

      Also, whites have historically lost territory too. Does Turkey, certain Arab states, and other Asian countries have to give it back to us? Do the Japanese have to give their country back to the Ainu? Do the Bantus have to relinquish much of Africa to the Hottentots? Do you attack their identity because of past conquests?

      Somehow, non-whites get a free pass from your kind. Sheer hypocrisy.

      Oh wait, I forgot. According to your *logic*, is there really any such thing as Indians? I mean, other races, including whites, can assemble teepees and put feathers in their hair. So that means Indians don’t exist, right? According to you, nothing changed.

      But for those that don’t inhabit your particular world of the bizarre, the truth is obvious: conquest has been a huge part of human history. Both whites and non-whites have engaged in it extensively, and it does not justify the genocide of the populations that exist today.

      Derek: ” Now, specifically, list the races you claim are swamping the US and asserting dominance.”

      Jesus Christ, you are a wacko. This entire thread, and you still don’t know what is meant by non-whites? Why do you participate in debates over subject matter that you are so ignorant of?

      Derek: “but immigration per se isn’t a bad thing if carefully managed. It is a huge boost to the economy”

      Unreal. You don’t know what is meant by non-whites, you demand links to prove what a non-white immigrant is, and yet you make a claim like this. You are absurd.

    • You keep on talking as though there is a single “white race” with a common ancestry, unified culture and shared values. There simply isn’t, no matter how many times you repeat it.

    • Trainspotter

      Derek: “You keep on talking as though there is a single “white race” with a common ancestry, unified culture and shared values. There simply isn’t, no matter how many times you repeat it.”

      There is a broader European people, with numerous subdivisions thereof. There is a broader European civilization, filled with kindred subcultures. These overarching civilizational blocs, with numerous kindred subgroupings within, exist across much of the planet. This is really news for you?

      You didn’t know, for example, that there is a broader Arab people, though it is subdivided in numerous ways? How do you work at a university (if you actually do), and yet remain mired in such astonishing ignorance about the world around you? With such incredible ignorance, why do you attempt to participate in debates like this, where you are so clearly outmatched?

      Further, I’m not interested in saving all whites. I’ve stated explicitly that I don’t consider you to be part of my community, it is not on your behalf that I support this cause, and I do not seek to advance, promote, or otherwise protect your interests in any way. I’ve said that I want complete political separation from your kind. Aside from pointing out your anti-white dishonesty and ignorance, I find offensive any connection with you whatsoever.

      I’m using plain English here. How much clearer do I need to be?

  • Leslie H. Higgins

    TYN, whatever Mr. Williams says please don’t switch to Disqus. It’s fine for CNN and LifeSiteNews, but I’m getting sick of seeing it everywhere. I like the comment system here–the conversation actually has to PROGRESS to some degree and doesn’t get so hung up on the top comment.

"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree."

-Martin Luther

By: Thomas Buhls



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